Discussion in 'Night Vision/Thermal' started by wigwamitus, Nov 1, 2014.
Well, look who's back! Nice yote.
Wiggy....where the? What the?......You're still alive? We thought you got blown away by the Kansas winds!
Well!! Look what the cat ('er... 'yote) dragged in !!!! Welcome back stranger.
Good to see you back Wig.
Nice pic of your dead yote ... that one won't be eating any more guineas !
Pics from Texas trip back in November ...
This is James and Joe (the olde guy on the left) over 3 sows and a piglet we got. It was a strange setup ... we went prone (due to need to crawl under a fence into a low branch tree line quickly with minimal noise) ... we called the hogs 50yds from us with them up on some bales ... and the close one lifted its head and we fired on that ... the other ten-ish ran to our left across a narrow pasture ... we both barrage fired and got two ... then aimed a large one to the rear and got it. Net 1 Sow at 50yds ... 1 Sow and 1 piglet at 80yds and 1 Sow at 200yds.
James had 5.56(16) with Pulsar XD50A and Spartan 3.
Joe had 5.56(10.3) with IRD MK2 35mm and AAC Mini.
We both used Barnes TSX 62gr, Black Hills load.
James fired 11 rds, Joe fired 10rds.
James and Joe (EDIT - note different pants!) second evening with a est. 200 lb boar. I spotted this one in a tree line ... James and Joe leaned on a fence and counted down and fired the boar bolted away up a short steep ridge ... I couldn't believe we missed! So we pursued and noted a blood trail and followed it over the ridge and found the dead boar. Two bullet holes and 4 inches apart, distance of the shot 91yds.
Thanks to Dave K. for being our guide and picture taker. He had XD38S spotter and 65G(16) rifle with Harvester and 123SST, though he did not fire any rounds. The big fields we went to had no nearby hogs to engage .
James also got his first yote, spotted at 300yds ... and called in to 45yds by Dave ... who has a great (human) mouth call ...
Great adventure there!! Congrats on it !
Thought I would relate my experiences with ATN Thor HD, 19mm, 1.25x, 384(30)
Sent this email to ATN on 11/17/2017
Sent this message to ATN this morning after spending a couple of hours out last night messing around with new ATN Thor HD, 19mm, 1.25x, 384(50). At an MSRP of $1,999 and a street price of $1,800 or less (I've seen the monocular version on Midway for $1,310) this device could be a market shifter. But given the apparent issues I am hung up on, I would say this unit is not there yet. I think these units use the same cores as the Pulsars, but the pulsar's image are way better, which is disappointing. Maybe ATN can "fix" these units and gain some market share. That would be a good thing for them.
ATN Thor HD 19mm, 1.25x, 384(50)
White Hot ... overall impression of wash out symptoms, too much white every where, especially, when looking up. Have tried adjusting contrast (1-5) and brightness (1-5) and no joy.
Black Hot ... can get no image at all period. I am prompted to NUC, which I do, but no image. Adjusted contrast and brightnesss, no joy. Also tried adjusting "thermal sentitivity" from "low" (default) to "medium" also no help. Can see no image with Black Hot, only solid white screen.
Diopter - seems to work fine, was able to get clear sharp reticle.
Focus - seems to work fine - but image remains a little bit fuzzy even with much focus adjustment. Beyond 100 yds, very fuzzy, regardless of focus adjustment.
Zero. Zeroed at 25yds with primos gen2 trigger stick. Was getting quarter inch groups, but regarding windage, I am either on the left edge of the handwarmer or with one click on the right edge of the handwarmer. The click sensitivity seems to be about 1 inch. We need under half inch (half MOA at 100yds would be nice).
My use case: I was hoping to use this mostly on .22LR to replace Q-14, 19mm, 1x, 640(30), which I want to use on helmet. Currently using ODIN, 17mm, 1x, 320(30) on helmet. The ODIN has a much clearer image than the Thor HD, 1.25. I was hoping the Thor HD 1.25x would be better. I have had four different pulsars (xd38a, xd50a, xd50 and xd75a) over the past year using I think, the same core as the ATN HD 1.25x and those scopes have great image, better than Armasight and almost as good as IRD (I have IRD Mk2, 35mm, 2.5x, 640(60). But the Thor HD 1.25x image does not rival any of the other thermals I've had (Amrasight Apollo, 42mm, 1x, 324(60), Zeus, 75mm, 3x, 640(30), Zeus Pro, 100mm, 4x, 640(60)). I want to use the Thor HD, 1.25 on the .22lr for "Coop Defense" knocking off coons, opossums, etc. running around our chicken coop at night. The Q-14/.22lr combo has done a great job of that over the past year. But given the fuzziness, the washout, the lack of black hot and the lack of click sensitivity when zeroing, I do not think I would want to use the Thor HD 1.25x. I would be too aware of these combination of shortcomings. Hence I would like to return the Thor HD 1.25x for a refund and ponder what direction to go in next. The attempt to put out a sub $2,000 scope that is actually usable for hunting is a noble one, but don't think the Thor HD, 1.25x is there yet.
01 - Contrast - make it easier to adjust contrast with less button clicks
02 - Brightness - make it easier to adjust brightness with less button clicks
03 - Increase the click sensitivity of the reticle clicks, half inch per click at 100yds would be nice.
04 - Get black hot working
05 - Reduce washout in the image
06 - enable easy switching between black hot and white hot with less button clicks (when doing target ID, toggling between black and white hot, is a normal activity)
07 - Reduce fuzziness in the image - if Pulsar can do it - so can ATN. Check out the Pulsar HD19A handheld spotter. You guys should be able to equal or exceed that unit.
Then on 11/18/2016
Called ATN Thursday mid-day, spoke with Aaron (650) 989 5141. Aaron told me to reinstall the firmware and repeat the tests and if device not satisfactory to return it to Pyramyd Air.
Steps I took:
101 - Reinstalled firmware V2.3.04.676
102 - Remove battery cap for 1 minute and restarted device.
103 - On power up, device showed "CAL" in upper center of device. This is good and had not happened before. This enabled calibration of the compass, which resulted in more accurate compass readings than previously.
104 - Black Hot. Went to test black hot. Set device to black hot and NUC'd device. For a fraction of a second, I could see a valid black hot image - maybe a quarter of a second - but then it disappeared and image was solid white. Repeated this test several times with same results.
105 - Image fuzzy - after focusing on object at 100yds distant, image is still fuzzy, for items near 100yds as well as closer and farther away.
106 - Washout - on white hot - cannot see much beyond 100yds due to washout (everything is white) ... can see objects inside 100yds, but there is still a lot of white on the screen.
I am disappointed, but I guess not totally surprised. The idea of having a usable hunting thermal for under $2,000 would be a game changer ... and perhaps the ATN Thor HD, 19mm, 1.25x device can get there. But it is clearly not there yet.
ATN announced a firmware upgrade for the THOR HD series ... too late for me ... but hopefully this will help with some of the issues I experienced ...and benefit other users?
Neutral pixel correction
Automatic pixel correction improvement
Image quality improvement
Ultimately I assume I got an early release "beta" version or a "lemon" ... but it was what it was and it was not "functional" from my perspective.
Nice adventure! It looks like Joe got really excited!
After selling Q-14, I have moved the ODIN from the helmet to the .22lr for chicken coop defense, which is primarily rats, but an occasional coon or opossum that get within 100yds.
Last night's report ...
10 mph N
Goal: Coop patrol
Environment: Overcast, no moon, no stars, cool, a bit of a breeze. Ground still wet, from 5 days of rain, with rain forecast pretty steadily over the next 2 weeks.
Equipment: .22LR, eley 40gr hp, subsonic. Spartan 3, ODIN 17mm, 1x 320(30), amber filter on back, bulter creek flipup on front.
Activity: Went out and closed coop door. Saw several critters along the creek bank, they had detected me and were staying in the underbrush. A pile of yotes started hollering from within 400yds, from the alfalfa patch to the North, I could see three of them to the NNE in the alfalfa patch, the others were behind the apple orchard to the NW. After the hollering they disappeared and no further encounters with yotes were had last night. I stalked South up the slope into some shadows in case the yotes came south to my west, but they did not. I saw three rats near the green house - noted their existence and will go after them another night. Then stalked North and then East along the creek which was running even more intensely than last night. I was now in deep shadows and had good sound cover. As I approached the area around the woodshed (a favorite handout for rats) I saw one, it apparently detected me and headed up a tree. I could not see it. So, I decided to stalk around the woodshed and approach from the other direction. I could also thus flush any other rats around the woodshed. No rats were visible in the woodshed, but as I came even with the East outer wall I saw a rat and fired, I was low and the rat was flung up into the sky (this is normal if I forget to hold UP when shooting from inside 10 yds). I fired again holding up over the top of the rat and it splattered and jiggled. I watched for a moment to make sure. Then I proceeded around behind the woodshed from the east and saw the rat in the tree in a "crook" in the tree. I fired and this rat splattered. I then turned and looked along the creek bank and saw another rat on a fallen log, I fired and it flew off the log. I approached and it was still behind the log. I proceeded further down the creek bank. I saw a bird in a bush, but have learned to tell birds in bush from rats, so bird in bush was not disturbed, though sometimes they make noise if I get too close. I returned and checked the positions of all three rats and they had not moved. So picked up each rat and carried to photo area and deposited rats there, from left to right, first, second and third rat in shooting sequence. The hp ammo makes a mess of them sometimes.
Summary/Results: Well I think the 25yd zero is established, but I still want to validate the 65yd double zero. The ODIN seems to work fine, the amber filter seems to work fine, the image is clear. I still did not remember to try black hot.
Sus Ratus there !!! Nice work!
Update from Wab. Cnty Kansas ...
I continue to go out pretty much every night and "control" the critters in our 5 acre human area which roughly works out to critters within 100yds of the chicken coop. Don't want to bore anyone with these repetitive activities. I mostly use the .22LR with the ODIN, 17mm, 1x, 320(30) mounted on the rifle and using eley hollow point subsonic ammo (as shown above).
I've tried the COTI on the 14 as shown above and to my surprise, it doesn't work as well as I hoped. Around here, the rats/mice are usually in grass or dead weed stalk areas right now and these terrain elements split the beam, of the laser-max ir-laser and it is tough to figure out which of the split beams to aim at the rat/mouse. So I'm averaging about 3 rds per kill with the COTI/14/ir-laser versus 1.5 rds per kill with the thermal on the rifle. The COTI/ir-laser combo does better with the larger critters like coons and opossum.
I got the COTI to "replace" the Q-14 but I am still in the market for the "replacement" for the Zeus Pro. The Trail 640, 50mm is high on the list, but I wish it had a little more front end magnification. If the this unit had 2x to 3x front end magnification, I'd already have it. So for now "waiting" to see what else rolls around the corner.
10 MPH NE
Goal: Check SNIPE on 5.56(18) at 500yds
Environment: Cloudy, Breeze from NE.
Equipment: 5.56(18) with Burris 1.5-8x CQB MIL, Manfrotto, SNIPE.
Activity: Rolled out to target area, used propane torch to heat the steel. Then headed to 500yds, setup tripod and took some through the lens images. This is not the greatest "camera" ... it is my olde phone. The images were clearer to my eye. The scope is on 8x. Reticle estimation is that the cow is 400yds in the second pic.
Summary/results: Well having the real reticle would definitely help with hitting targets at distance. The image is fuzzy at 8x, but I think better than my old Apollo 336 with 2x or 3x magnification. And I think I can hit targets with it at these distances.
Wig this is the snipe-ir? If so please post some pics of it mounted and what was zeroing procedure.
Ok, here is the mounted pic ... SNIPE in front of Burris 1.5-8x CQB MIL on 5.56(18) on Manfrotto tripod.
Since Cliff (BRD) sent me this unit to t&e I had first mentioned I would not shoot it as I was mostly interested in the image ... (I have faith it will be good enough in the shooting process) ... but I've had several requests, so today Cliff said "shoot it" ... so going through the zeroing process now ... it is "movie night" with the wife ... so final zeroing/testing will be tomorrow/night. Given time I will also try it on 6.5g(18) in front of Burris 3-15x scr-mil ... I've already image tested it and at 10x it is pixelated but still able to see targets ... I would say the 8x on the SNIPE is better than the 2x on my olde Apollo 336 but not better than the 1x on the Apollo 336. At 6x or 4x the SNIPE is way better. For under $10k, I'm thinking it is the best thermal clipon you can buy (new).
Here is the Burris XTR2 1.5-8x cq-mil reticle in the above scope ... it is DFP (Dual focal plane) meaning the circle dot is SFP and the subtensioned reticle is FFP ...
It is larger and heavier than the V/O 1-6x G2 MILR ... but better from 400yds out to 700yds ... the V/O has a great dot ... my favorite ... equal to the ELCAN ... but I think the Burris beats the V/O in the intermediate distance space due to the reticle. The eyebox/glass on the V/O has not been beat by anything I've looked through. So depends on your use case!
I'm still trying ... double zeroed the day scope with FM(r) 77gr ... no problem ...
With the clipon I was low right.
So I went in and followed the "clipon - live fire" zeroing process ...
It is day time ... sun is high ... washes out the view through the scope (this is normal in the day time) so I'm using a sweater over my head as a shroud
The sun also glints off the glass between the scope and the rear of the clipon obscuring the target, so I have to stretch the sweater to try to cover that gap.
Every time I need to push a button on the clipon I have to reach farther forward than I can reach and stay behind the gun ... this moves the sweater which has to be adjusted so I can see what is happening inside the scope.
I centered the zeroing reticle of the clipon with the reticle of the day scope and fired a group ... center of group was 3.6 inchs right. I was at 50 yds ... so I moved the clipon reticle 2 mils to the right to align it with the center of the group. I fired a second group ... hit same spot. Apparently I needed to click another button to "confirm" I had moved the reticle after I clicked the button confirming I moved the reticle. I repeated the process. Third group hit same spot.
Unfortunately I have to prepare for a business trip next week and this is one of 16 things on my list to get done today. It might take 2 hours to get it done right the first time. I've spent 30m on it ... will try again later if I have time ... worst case next weekend after I get back.
I'm 99.9% sure it can be done ... just got get all the buttons pushed right. Trying it a twilight would be 300 times easier.
Separate names with a comma.