Practicing with Night Vision

Discussion in 'Night Vision/Thermal' started by wigwamitus, Nov 1, 2014.

  1. Taco

    Taco LSB Active Member LSB TURKEY BUZZARD PRESERVATION SOCIETY SUS VENATOR CLUB

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    Thanks for the update. Please post again on zeroing.
     
  2. wigwamitus

    wigwamitus LSB Active Member

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    2017-06-03
    2100-2300
    60F
    05 MPH ENE

    Goal(s): Check zero of several systems.

    Environment: Overcast, moon barely visible as a fuzzy orb through the clouds ... occasional cloud bursts ...

    Equipment: 5.56(18), Burris 1.5-8x CQ MIL, SNIPE, FM(r) 77gr, ... several other system for myself and neighbor.

    [​IMG]

    Activity: Setup targets at 25, 50, 100yds

    Checked zero of SNIPE on 5.56(18)

    Used following process:

    SNIPE - Live Fire - Zero

    A - Press Down on the thumbstick to enter the SYSTEM MENU

    B - Press Up on the thumbstick to enter the SIGHTING IN MENU

    C - Press backwards on the thumbstick to enter the LIVE FIRE TARGET sight in

    D - Now you are at Step 1, please follow on-screen - directions

    NOTES

    STEP 1 - Use thumbstick to align the day optic and SNIPE reticles. Press button when done.

    CONFIRM

    STEP 2 - Fire one group at the target

    STEP 3 - Adjust SNIPE reticle to center of target group

    STEP 4 - Press joystick button to confirm

    STEP 5 - Fire second group at the target

    --
    The first 2 rd group - STEP 2 both rds clipped the bottom center of the handwarmer. So for STEP 3, I moved the SNIPE reticle down 2 clicks and pressed the button. Then fire second group it was about half an inch higher. That was moving it in the right direction, but I'd like it to be another inch up. Not sure how we are supposed to get it there. Maybe, I need to skip STEP 4? There are some words in the scope for this step, but they are obscured by a "sign" that says "30hz".
    I'm sure smart people can figure this out the first time, but I'm still not totally there yet, though might be getting closer.

    [​IMG]

    ==
    Neighbor confirmed his zero with his .22LR and my XD38A he has on loan. He was dead on with a tight 3-rd group. I then confirmed zero with a few other systems and we called it good.
    We have 18 head we just got last week up on my land, so trying to avoid nights of gun fire up there right now while they are settling in.
     
  3. wigwamitus

    wigwamitus LSB Active Member

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    ok, back to the SNIPE.

    Fired two 10 round groups and both were off to the right about an inch. So I went make thru the "live fire" menu sequence and SKIPPED (pressed the button) the part about aligning the thermal reticle with the day scope reticle. But I did adjust the reticle a bit during the confirmation step and got centered. I am still a little low. I used up the ammo and time I had allocated to this purpose for the evening, so will have to try again to night. But, this was the first time I went in and successfully made a follow up adjustment. What I had been doing wrong was to be moving the reticle around in the "align the two reticles" step and trying to compensate for the offset at that step. That is not correct. You align the reticles once and skip past that step when subsequently making adjustments.

    So subsequent adjustments process

    SNIPE - Live Fire - Zero

    A - Press Down on the thumbstick to enter the SYSTEM MENU

    B - Press Up on the thumbstick to enter the SIGHTING IN MENU

    C - Press backwards on the thumbstick to enter the LIVE FIRE TARGET sight in

    D - Now you are at Step 1, please follow on-screen - directions

    NOTES

    STEP 1 - For subsequent adjustments SKIP this step by pressing the joystick button

    CONFIRM

    STEP 2 - Fire one group at the target

    STEP 3 - Adjust SNIPE reticle to center of target group

    STEP 4 - Press joystick button to confirm

    STEP 5 - Fire second group at the target
     
  4. djones

    djones gfy

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    in english please
     
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  5. wigwamitus

    wigwamitus LSB Active Member

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    Cranked up 2 more clicks and fired 5 rd group ...

    [​IMG]

    Cranked down 1 click fired 4 rd group ...

    [​IMG]

    Called it good ... the key to zeroing the SNIPE is to click past the reticle alignment step .. for subsequent adjustments ... that is wrong I was doing wrong at first.
     
  6. wigwamitus

    wigwamitus LSB Active Member

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    ==

    So, I have been having some stove pipes in the 6.5G(18) recently. Based on prior experience, I wanted to take down the bolt, remove both extractor and ejector and see if there was any foreign material inside, like brass flakes.
    I also triple cleaned the chamber.

    ==
    On the chamber I dipped a nylon chamber brush in CLP and then on the end of a piece of cleaning rod, inserted into a drill. I then "reamed" the rotating nylon brush back and forth in the chamber for about 40 seconds. Then I mopped out with six large patches.
    Then repeated 2 more times. Triple cleaned.
    (doing this once, is my normal chamber cleaning process - which I do a lot!)
    ==
    I disassembled the bolt removing both the ejector and the extractor. There were no brass flakes, though there was some build up in the extractor area which I cleaned up.

    The ejector roll pin did look a bit "mangled", so I decided to replace it. I ordered some "AR-Stoner" ejector roll pins from Midway. They seemed too large. They were visibly larger than the one I had removed. I called Midway and they haughtily proclaimed theirs were "mil-spec". I looked up the dimensions of the ejector roll pin on the net and found it was 1/16 or 0.0625 inches. My 1/16 punch would fit inside the ejector roll pin port. The midway roll pin would not. On Brownell's I found a roll pin that looked exactly like the Midway one and in answer to an online question, the Brownell's had answered that the diameter of their roll pin was 0.066.

    Reading on the net, I found a post where a guy said, put the roll pin in a drill and file a point on one end. His motivation was to help make sure the roll pin did not hang in the indent of the ejector when installing the roll pin. That made sense, but I also figured the point would help me get the roll pin started into the hole. Well laa dee dah ... I did all that and it worked. I could just barely get the roll pin started in the hole, enough to grab the punch and rubber hammer and knock it in the hole!

    How interesting! If you like solving gun issues !!
    :)

    Now let's see if the gun works !!!

    ==
    6.5G(18) file photo ...

    [​IMG]
     
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  7. wigwamitus

    wigwamitus LSB Active Member

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    BTW, no stoppages on the 6.5G(18) since completion of he above procedure. I have sent 19 rounds down range, these were the new Federal berger 130gr hybrid hpbt rounds I am testing as possible replacement for the hornady amax 123 I've been using for target shooting. Regardless I will still use the 123 SST for hogs.
    ==
    Otherwise, had an issue with Larue LT104 mount, this is a cantilever one piece with the vertically joining "rings". Two attempts to remount a scope and the scope was still wobbling on the mount. I used 22.5 in/pds. Called Larue, they said torque down all 4 lower screws before torquing down the upper screws ... do NOT do it like a tire ... well I had been doing it like a tire - alternating ... so did it the Larue way .. and that worked! Now the scope is not wobbling in the mount. Larue Tech Support actually helped solve an issue !!! :)
     
  8. wigwamitus

    wigwamitus LSB Active Member

    Joined:
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    1,110
    2017-10-17
    2100-2200
    50F
    05 MPH WNW

    Goals: Coop patrol ...

    Environment: Weather last few nights has been fairly consistent ... during the time in question in the upper 40s to low 50s ... coolest temps in the mornings upper thirties to low 40s. Skies have been clear, stars in full bloom. Even with my eyes, I can make out the fuzz of Andromeda. No moon and I'm actually going out 1-3 times every night for the next 2 weeks to take advantage of the reduced moon period.

    Equipment: 5.56(10.3) with 77gr FM(r), TEO Mk3 35mm, 2.5x, 640(60), Spartan 3, Primos 1-leg shooting stick. Helmet with pvs-14 and ODIN 17mm, 1x, 320(30). On some nights, I take the .22lr(16), on some the 5.56(10.3) ...

    Activity: Walked all around the 5 acre "human area" which includes all 7 buildings, the chicken coop, the apple orchard, the creek running through the middle of it, with a foot bridge that I can walk across or drive the 4 wheeler across. There is also a wooded section. From the North edge of the Apple orchard I have 97% field of fire into the Alfalfa patch. From other positions in the 5 acre area, I also have fields of fire in to the West and South pastures. Field of fire to the East pasture is blocked by woods.
    In the first pass, I saw one deer in the Apple orchard .. I mowed in there over the weekend and cut some of the apples on the ground and the critters can smell them, so I expect to see more critters in there over the next week. Deer not on my target list, so I took some stills with the TEO, but have been unable to download them.
    On the second pass, I saw a critter, either coon or opossum, based on movement I figured an opossum at about 50yds distance in the apple orchard. I flipped the 14 and ODIN out (not up. Up would expose the rear ends of the nods to the critter and those are lite up, so do not want to do that. By flipping out, the rear ends still point to my rear and I can shoulder, aim and fire the carbine without touching the NODs. So given the distance estimate, I aimed dead center and the critter did not move further.

    [​IMG]

    The hit was in the back of the neck.

    When I fired, I heard a yote to the NW howl, but moving in the direction got no sighting. I did a third pass and saw a rat, but I don't usually go after rats with the 5.56, I save them for the .22LR.

    Results/Summary: Each November, for the past 2 Novembers, since I've been doing "Coop patrol" ... there has been a period in November where the Coons and opossum are thick near the coop. I got 12 in a 2 week period in 2015 and 14 in a 2 week period in 2016. We will see what this year brings. Something about the change of season. The rats and mice also are much more active in November.

    I will take the .22LR out tonight.
     
  9. wigwamitus

    wigwamitus LSB Active Member

    Joined:
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    Messages:
    1,110
    2017-10-22
    2030-2200
    40F
    05 MPH SW

    Goal: Coop Patrol

    Environment: Cool and it will actually get below freezing for 2 nights mid-week, per the forecast ... and the wind is enough to feel cooler still. Wore balaklava, not acclimated yet. The stars were out, sky clear. No Moon.

    Equipment: 5.56(10.3) 77gr FM(r), Mk3 35mm 2.5x 640(60).

    [​IMG]

    Activity: Checked along the South bank of the creek, owl that lives in the woods on north bank hooted as per usual. Saw a large hot lump in the West pasture, hoped it was a sleeping cow. Looped around to the north across bridge, looked SW and verified hot lump was sleeping cow. Then entered apple orchard from the West. Saw critter at 50 yards, probable opossum, fired anchored, curly shuffle. Took pic.

    [​IMG]

    Checked out the alfalfa patch, saw some rats, not on the agenda for tonight.
    Heading East along our pasture road saw critter in tree at 200yds, probably Coon. Closed quickly moving through shadows near tree line. Got to position about 75yds, able to lean on bale, pushed 2xdigital (net 5x magnification). Shooting up into tree (100 foot hill behind tree for backstop) critter was oriented virtically, head on top rear on bottom, aimed at bottom, hit critter fell out of tree onto ground. Saw two pack rats while moving to spot where coon landed. Crossed fence into Turtle creek (still our land) took pic.

    [​IMG]

    Summary/Results: Looks like we are moving towards the busy time. I kept the Mk3 on 2x about half the time, trying to get used to that if I upgrade the 35mm lens to 60mm ... 2x digital times the 2.5 optical is 5x net and that is a LOT of magnification at night. For long range scanning it is great, but for coop patrol even 2.5x is almost too much. Life is full of trade-offs.
     
  10. wigwamitus

    wigwamitus LSB Active Member

    Joined:
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    1,110
    2017-10-31
    20F
    0300-0330
    03 MPH SW

    Goal: Coop Patrol

    Environment: Cool and partly cloudly, no wind.

    Equipment: 5.56(10.3), 77gr FM(r), Mk3 35mm, 2.5x, 640(60)

    Activity: While patrol around coop, saw a coon moving along the alfalfa patch fence at about 100yds. Used the verticle fluid aiming technique for the first shot. Coon ran 45 degree angle towards me and towards the creek and got into a bush. Second shot. Coon did not move. Third shot, I could see jerking and then the Coon appeared to fall into the creek. Second and 3rd shots about 90yds.

    This morning I went out and took pics.

    [​IMG]
    It looks like one hit was a grazing hit on the right rear leg ... and the second hit looks like it removed the left front leg. So I am guessing the 3rd shot was the front leg shot and that either the 1st or 2nd shot was the right rear grazing hit.

    [​IMG]
    Coon's sometimes run hard and fast even when hit. I've seen several that I hit that ran 50yds before they expired (I thought I missed until I found them the next morning). So it could've been the first hit that was grazing that caused the coon to halt in the bush and "recover".

    Summary: This coon was about 40yds from the coop and coons will destroy the entire population of a coop if they can. It has happened within a mile of me in the past 2 months. They rip the heads off and leave the rest. It is a mess.
    I'm averaging 1 coon or opossum per night, which is typical of this time of year. I would expect this to continue through November. I've also finally setup the .22LR so I can start getting the rats and mice.
     
  11. wigwamitus

    wigwamitus LSB Active Member

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    [​IMG]

    2017-11-01
    2030-2200
    35F
    0 MPH SSW

    Goal: Coop Patrol

    Environment: No wind. Clouds, but higher and thinner than last couple of nights, so the moon is burning through more ... we are close to full moon now ... so too much moon and no wind = not ideal conditions for stalking. Have to try to stay more in the shadows. Also a lot of leaves on the ground in some places, so have to move more slowly.

    Equipment: .22LR with Eley subsonic hollow points, ODIN 1x 17mm 320(30) (with reticle) on rifle, AAC-Mini on front. Nightcap with PVS-14 and PAS-29 clipped on.

    Activity: Headed out and saw rat in woodshed, but it ran inside a steel pipe before I could get a shot at it. This running into steel pipes defense is tough to beat ... all the rats in town are trying it these days !! ODIN died, so had to change batteries. I need to tether the battery cap, but changing this one c123 is pretty easy, the cap is easy to access and easy to turn. Then headed along the South side of creek until reaching the foot bridge, crossed over into the apple orchard. No critters. Headed to the NE corner of the apple orchard where I can observe the entire 18 acre alfalfa patch. No critters there either ! I did hear dog barking way to the north. Headed into the woods on the north side of the creek, but still inside the fence they separates the pasture area from the human area. No critters there either. Had to change the PAS-29 battery, it is even easier to change. In current temps these batteries last close to an hour. When it gets colder their run time drops to minimum of 30m.
    Returned to the apple orchard then along fence line of west pasture, not even any cows seen over there. Continued up the fence line to the south ... walking up a hill. Heard several yotes yipping on the East side of ridge line 400yds to my east, so they were 600+ yds away. I was looking for rats in this area. We have several dirt piles still here from the construction and the rats love those. I saw one but it ran in its hole. Then on the corner post I saw a hot spot but waited for it to move. It ran into the pipe that ran between the two corner posts - another steel pipe maneuver !!! Ah, but then this rat stuck its head out of the other end of the pipe and I fired. The shot hit a thumb nail to the left ... the downside of using the PVS-14 mount for the ODIN is that it does wobble. I adjusted it so that the last 10 rd group I fired when zeroing had only 1 round affected by the mount wobble (which throws the rounds left 1 inch at 25yds). But the rat stuck its head out again to see what was up and this time I saw splatters of material depart from the rat when it got hit. These hollow points cause virtual explosions for these small critters when they get a solid hit. So the steel pipe defense was defeated for once, by the way too curious rat.
    Continued North along Turtle creek until in merged with our main creek. Then headed over behind vehicle building, no rats seen there! Hard to believe, I've gotten a zillion back there. Then looped around the green house, none there either ... Either they hear me coming or they are enjoying the warmth of their holes tonight. Then drug the trash can down to the road (it is trash night). Came back along the creek, there is a wood line there so more shadows. Still no critters. finished by going around the coop and woodshed again and then back to the house.

    Summary/Results: The Crye Precision worked fine. I usually wind up loaning it out. I've used it before but not with the PAS-29 on the 14, but it worked. Battery changes were not a problem. The Laser-max ir-laser pressure pad has died. I have to decide whether to replace it or upgrade the laser. This one has worked for 3 years and the ir-laser still works but the pressure pad is dead. Same is true for my other laser max ir-laser pressure pad dead. The coti works well at these short distances ... the auto-brightness adjustment is ok when on foot, but I'm still not used to it when rolling on the 4-wheeler (which I was not doing tonight). I have to flip up to shoulder the rifle and I don't want to point viz light at the critters so have to power down the 14 as well. I left the COTI on. The ODIN itself works fine, just this mount is not designed to be mount for a sight with a reticle, it is designed to be a mount for a 14 behind a reflex sight where a little wobble on the 14 does not affect the results. I'm looking at getting PRI M69 mount which is designed to hold an AIMPOINT but can hold a 14 as well and so it will hold my ODIN, since the housing is a 14 housing. But life is full if trade-offs the PRI M-69 is not free. But I take my "ratting" seriously and need a solid mount. It is ironic that I miss the old Armasight Q-14 mod 0 more than I thought I would. It had a solid mount and was great on the .22LR. The ODIN can be its replacement in the weapon sight role but needs a solid mount. I sold the Q-14 because at that time I could not find a way to mount it beside the 14. The ODIN fills that role also and other than using the ODIN on the .22LR sometimes, the ODIN is usually on my head.

    Precision Reflex - Product Detail - M69- Mount-CCOS (Aimpoint) - $237.00
     
    Last edited: Nov 17, 2017
  12. wigwamitus

    wigwamitus LSB Active Member

    Joined:
    Nov 1, 2014
    Messages:
    1,110
    2017-11-02
    0300-0330
    40F
    0 MPH SW

    Goal: Coop Patrol

    Environment: No Wind, No moon (set already) Medium Mist, terrain only visible out to about 80yds (it depends a little on the terrain ... but trees only visible out to about 80yds.

    Equipment: 5.56(10.3) 77gr FM(r), Mk3 35mm 2.5x 640(60), 1 leg shooting stick.

    Activity: For some reason I took the 1 legged primos shooting stick. Scanned all about, saw rat in the woodshed, but I was not after it with the 5.56. Eventually I saw some hot spots to West. I moved about 10yds closer very slowly into an area of shadows. The hot spots were fading in and out of view, due to tall grass I figured. Eventually I was able to see three critters. I used digital zoom to 2x and continued to watch them fading in and out, sometimes they would all be invisible, sometimes all visible, sometimes 1-2 visible only etc. I then realized they were passing behind some trees and coming out from behind some trees. I couldn't see the trees except when they were sticking out from behind them as then I could see grey blobs in front of their black bodies (I was on black hot). So given that they were behind trees in the West pasture that put them at about 130yds. My double zero is 50/160, so I need to hold down about an inch at 130yds So I cranked to 4x and waited for a broadside and eventually got one, though I had to switch my aim around as they continued to move behind and out from behind the trees. I finally had the reticle aimed at one broadside, trying to aim at the shoulder and fired and got DRT, curley shuffle. One of the three disappeared (probably ran South which put it in low ground relative to me. The other ran North and I tried to track it has it ran behind and out from behind tree after tree towards a creek. I could not get a good shot and eventually it disappeared in low ground near the creek.

    Summary/Activity: Not sure why I took the shooting stick, but it turned out I used it. I have seen coons and skunks and opossum in that area before, but not this season. Having to range the distance based on seeing critter pass behind trees you can't see (distance to which is prior knowledge) was a first for me. Mist is tough, "sea of grey" ... meaning you can see the critters fine, but not the terrain, so clues as to the distance are needed and this time I got lucky and had some clues. If these coons had been in the open I would've had to range with the reticle and though that should've been possible, it would've taken longer as I would've had to wait for a broadside or two just to range. The Mk3 reticle I use the TCR has 18 inch segment near the center and that would be useful though these Coons might have been up to 24 inches.

    Went out this morning and took pics ...

    View from the direction the shot was made showing the trees in this area ...

    [​IMG]

    The hit was in the shoulder which I was aiming for ... but it is a but high ... probably still wobble ... either that or bad aiming ...

    [​IMG]
     
  13. wigwamitus

    wigwamitus LSB Active Member

    Joined:
    Nov 1, 2014
    Messages:
    1,110
    2017-11-04
    2000-2100
    40F
    03 MPG S

    Goal: Coop Patrol

    Environment: Cloudy, no moon (rising later). Almost no wind.

    Equipment: 5.56(10.3), 77gr FM(r), mk3 35mm 2.5x 640(60), primos 1-leg trigger stick

    [​IMG]

    Activity: Busy night out there.
    Saw lone deer move thru apple orchard. While in the apple orchard I could only see tiny fragments of the critter but based on size and speed and steadiness of movement decided it was most likely a deer. This was about 90yds from my posn on the north wall of our green house in some shadows.
    Saw two rats in the 'yard' and cattle in both south and west pastures.
    There was a coon up in a tree at 100yds. I practiced ranging on the coon. If the coon, less tail was 24 inches, then it was very close to 100yds. This was a HIGH tree, maybe even 80 foot and the coon was near the top. I watched him on and off for most of the hour eating and having a blast. I didn't want to shoot up at that angle with 5.56 ... some directions I know are clear, but I'm not sure about that one.
    Saw a critter either coon or opossum in the woods to the NE along the creek, that one was within 100yds of the coop but about 150yds from me. I slowly redeployed into some shadows about 100yds from this coon. I could still see the coon in the tree to the SW at 150yds now. Meanwhile the deer was long gone having crossed the creek and passed within 25yds of me without detecting me. I got some stills with the thermal but I am unable to download them. :(
    So I continued watching the critter in the woods, he kept passing behind and out from behind trees and the grass was taller back there and often I could only see a few specs of him.
    Eventually he made his way to the north where the vegetation thined out and at about 90yds I got a broadside holding down just a little. Fired one rd DRT, only a very brief twitch from this one.
    Saw another big rat near one of our buildings but it was within inches of the building and on a concrete wing wall about 70yds away and I didn't want to go for it. If I'd had the .22lr I would've.
    I decided to head in for a while to say hi to wife and hope the coon in the tree doesn't leave before I get back out there.

    ==

    2200-2300
    Headed back out and took the M930T with 6 rounds of bird shot as well as the 5.56(10.3). No trigger stick this time.

    [​IMG]

    First noted that the coon was in a different tree within about 25yds of the coop. Crossed the creek and headed to the first critter lying on the ground. It was an opossum. The hit was on the back with a heavy exit wound. This was a rather small opossum. Moved it out to the alfalfa patch for the turkey buzzards.

    [​IMG]

    Then headed back for the Coon. With the 5.56 thermal I could see the coon fairly high up in the tree. This was a smaller tree, only about 50 feet high and the coon was about 40 feet up. I memorized the lay of the branches thru the thermal and then switched to the shotgun and aimed and fired three rounds. This was about an 80 degree angle from the horizontal. The coon started moving after the third round. I put the shotgun down and shouldered the thermal. The coon was coming down streaming blood onto the branches. Once he dropped to the ground I gave him a mercy shot and he did a curly shuffle. This was a big one.

    [​IMG]
     
    Chopperdrvr and slim_shady like this.
  14. wigwamitus

    wigwamitus LSB Active Member

    Joined:
    Nov 1, 2014
    Messages:
    1,110
    2017-11-12
    1845-1930
    30F
    05 MPH NW

    Goal: Coop patrol. Specicially we configured the metal coop door to auto close at 7pm local and auto open at 6am local. I wanted to watch it close.

    Environment: Cooled off fast after sun went down. Went from 40F to 30F in 2 hours!

    Equipment: 5.56(10.3) 77gr FM(r), TEO Mk3 35mm, 2.5x 640(60).

    Activity: Stood in shadows near barn, I could see the coop door. It is a metal door. This is the chicken door. It can auto close and open on a timer. We finally configured it today and I wanted to watch it close. I'm getting worried about the amount of critters around and don't want to only rely on the electric fence. Some critters could jump over it or even up over the enclosed run and then down into the inner fenced area and then into the coop from there. It would be hard and they might not be able to figure out how to get out. But we got the door to auto-open and close and time to set it up.

    So I could scan about to the South up a hill about 200yds West was blocked by a short low ridge, I could only see about 25 yds that way. To the north I could see into the center of our alfalfa patch. I saw what looked like a small deer in there trying to get some apples off the trees. I thought they all fell off, but this deer wanted some off the tree. Then I thought it sure was a tiny deer. These are not huge apple trees, the lower branches are about waist high. This deer was below those branches. My view was obscured by a zillion dead weeds and saplings along both banks of the creek. The apple orchard is on the other side of the creek. The deer was about 40 yds from me. I heard the coop door closing and watched. It went down halfway and got stuck. There must be an obstruction to clear. Then back to the deer. It started to move East and would soon be out of view. I then saw its profile clearly and realized it was a yote. The 45 degree down angle tail, the size and shape, bingo. I barely had time to get off a shot, but I did and it went down. Then I heard a howl and a second yote came into view, It was moving faster to the NW ... I put some lead on it but then it turned away to the North and headed down into the oxbow. I lost sight of it. I was not fast enough. Did not get the double.

    [​IMG]

    Results/Summary:
    I tell my wife all the time, "You never know what you will wind up doing when you go outside around here." And this was another case in point.
     
  15. wigwamitus

    wigwamitus LSB Active Member

    Joined:
    Nov 1, 2014
    Messages:
    1,110
    2017-11-14
    2100-2130
    40F
    5 MPH W

    Goal: Coop Patrol

    Environment: Warm, rainy, misty, same as last several days. Thermal performance terrible. Critters are in a sea of grey.

    Equipment: 5.56(10.3), 77gr GM(r), Mk3 35mm, 2.5x, 640(60).

    Activity: Saw Coon in tree 100yds from coop, fired .. material emitted from coon and it dropped into the creek bed.

    [​IMG]

    2300-2330

    Activity:
    Saw Coon/Opossum in apple orchard 25yds from Coop on other side of creek. Fired, critter turned and ran, fired critter down. It was opossum.

    [​IMG]
     
  16. wigwamitus

    wigwamitus LSB Active Member

    Joined:
    Nov 1, 2014
    Messages:
    1,110
    Some background.

    About a week ago, I got a RAPTAR ES ... the civ version with the range finder. I want it for the range finder, though the lasers can be used to help zero the range finder.

    ==
    So, we need to mount the rifle mounted range finders on the scope rings. These offer a solid platform, unlike the fore arm rails (as you will see later).

    So, I will begin my saga.

    ==
    RAPTAR won't work on badger mount behind UTC ... UTC is too high.

    [​IMG] upload_2017-12-4_14-16-2.gif

    So, trying 3 o'clock.

    Here is my zeroing rig.

    [​IMG] upload_2017-12-4_14-16-2.gif

    Steps:

    1 - Zero day scope
    2 - co-witness day scope to vis laser on the RAPTAR in the house (this gets the rough zero)
    3 - co-witness day scope with ir-laser on the RAPTAR outside (using 14 to look thru the day scope) as far away as possible.
    4 - Test distances for known distance objects

    Actually the above process was faster and easier than I expected. At first I though the distances were a little short, then I realized the RAPTAR was set to meters [​IMG] upload_2017-12-4_14-16-2.gif
    The distances are fine.

    So next I will try it in the field with the UTC on there!
     
  17. wigwamitus

    wigwamitus LSB Active Member

    Joined:
    Nov 1, 2014
    Messages:
    1,110
    Well, went out yesterday to try RAPTAR in the field and got "error 1" message for all ranging attempts.
    Came back to the house and checked with the viz laser and it was off 1 mil right and 3 mils low.
    I've been told that running it on the front rail does work and I guess I am proving that!
    Getting a scope ring mount that will work with the UTC will be a custom job and will take a month or so at the machine shop (they are usually several weeks behind). In the mean time, I can try it at night by rezeroing each time I go out, it isn't that hard.

    This is not a RAPTAR issue, this is a mounting issue.
    The UTC clipon is too high. The apertures of the RAPTAR do not clear the UTC when mounted with the Badger RAPTAR mounting system. Not even close. So will have to make a new Badger like system that is half inch to 1 inch higher. Next challenge is to try to figure out how much higher. But 1 inch would do it for sure.

    ==
    So as some have pointed out, using forearm rail mounted LRF will not work, well unless you zero it every time before you use it. I tried it and learned first hand, myself, that the people saying this are correct !!! :D

    ==
    So, next step is to have Farrell Mfg in Warsaw MO do me a custom mount. The badger RAPTAR mount is designed for clipons like the PVS-30 which are lower than the UTC which uses an "offset" design.

    ==
    I will get it to work but not there yet.
    :)
     
  18. wigwamitus

    wigwamitus LSB Active Member

    Joined:
    Nov 1, 2014
    Messages:
    1,110
    Once I get it to work with the thermal clipon ... I will try to get it to work with the Mk3. In order to do that I will need to send the mk3 back to TEO and get them to add a pic rail mount on top of the thermal. Then I can mount the RAPTAR up there.
    It will be a 2 person job to zero the RAPTAR to the mk3 reticle.
    One guy looking through the Mk3 at the target 800yds away .. and the other guy with pvs-14 a 3x magnifier zeroing the laser to the target.
    Then testing.
    In theory it can be done. But I want some experience with the clipon first before trying with the thermal scope.
     
  19. wigwamitus

    wigwamitus LSB Active Member

    Joined:
    Nov 1, 2014
    Messages:
    1,110
    I feel soooo stoooo pid ...

    So a few posts above ^^ I report that the RAPTAR will not work on the 12 o'clock behind the UTC because the UTC is too high.

    Well today I was looking at RAPTAR mount pics on the internet and found this pic ...

    [​IMG] upload_2017-12-10_13-35-41.gif

    And I realized that was a UTC up there !!!

    And I said to myself ,"If it works for that guy it might work for me!"

    ==

    [​IMG] upload_2017-12-10_13-35-41.gif
    So I just tried it ... the viz laser worked and the LRF worked. Problem solved. No custom solution needed. So, stoo pid !!!

    ==
    In the old Ken Burns movie about the Civil War, there is a great story.

    McClellan has just landed on the York Peninsula in 1862 and is advancing towards Richmond. He is riding out ahead of his Army with some staff officers checking out the route. They come to a creek. McClellan halts and asks, "I wonder how deep that creek is?" One of the staff officers rides his horse out into the creek. The water comes up the to belly of the horse and the staff officer hollers out "About this deep General !!"

    Had I been McClellan - I would've felt Stooo pid ... and well that's exactly how I feel now. I should have just TRIED IT. Instead of "Admiring the problem that wasn't" [​IMG] upload_2017-12-10_13-35-41.gif

    ==
    BTW, the staff officer in question was one "George A. Custer" ... and this particular act might have been the smartest thing GAC ever did. But it is still a useful lesson. Don't spend your time wondering about sh^t that is very easy for you to just TRY AND SEE.

    [​IMG] upload_2017-12-10_13-35-41.gif

    ==
    In my case, while the top of the objective bell of the clipon is clearly much higher than the centers of apertures of the RAPTAR, the sides of the bell taper off quickly enough that the lasers can still see forward. And now I have verified that by testing.
     
    Chopperdrvr likes this.
  20. wigwamitus

    wigwamitus LSB Active Member

    Joined:
    Nov 1, 2014
    Messages:
    1,110
    2017-12-10
    1830-1900
    40F
    5 MPH NW

    Goal: Check RAPTAR

    Environment: clear, stars, no moon, wind from NW.

    Equipment: 5.56(18), L&S 3-18x H58, PVS-14 mounted on rear of scope, later, UTC-x mounted in front. Manfrotto m055 tripod with 322RC-2 head.

    The pic shows all the gear but the UTC was not mounted during the zeroing process.

    [​IMG]

    Activity:

    STEP01 - Zero ir-laser to the reticle.
    I had already zeroed the day scope at 100yds. Badger finally sent me the correct screws to mount the RAPTAR mount to the scope rings, so I did that and mounted the RAPTAR, testing in the house revealed the lasers could all see past the bell of the UTC. In the RAPTAR the three lasers, the red viz, the ir-pointer and the LRF laser all shine thru the same aperture. Though from slightly different positions.
    So I had zeroed the xiz laser to the reticle in the house. That gets it close enough that when you go outside and try to zero the ir-laser at longer distance you can see it in the FOV of the scope.
    When mounted at 12 o'clock on top of the scope, the adjustments just happen to work just like most day scopes. Counter clock wise on the knob on the top of the RAPTAR is "up" CW is down. For the knob on the side, turning the top of the knob towards you is right and top of the knob away is left. So this is easy to remember! So, I powered on the 14. I pointed the reticle at a mineral feeder I knew to be 415yds away and cranked the magnification all the way up to 18x. I set the selector switch on the RAPTAR to IR-laser, which is one click CCW from off. Then adjusted the ir-laser on to the center of the reticle on the mineral feeder. I Had attached the pressure switch, so I was using that to turn the laser on/off. Then I hit the range button and read 378 and did a little arithmetic and got 415 yds ! Further more, I could SEE the distance on the back of the display with my left eye, without taking my right eye off the reticle on the target. I had not expected that !!!.
    I then checked a tree at 74 meters and another tree at 91 meters.

    STEP02 - Test with the thermal clipon
    Then I removed the 14 assembly from the back of the day scope.
    And I mounted the UTC-x to the front. I use larue rail clips, so I can feel the top to start the
    I re-lased the mineral feeder. This time, my eye was a little closer to the back of the scope and I could not quite see over the top of the turrets. I rechecked the two trees and they matched. So I was lasing targets with the RAPTAR with the UTC clipped on giving me 18x with the H58 reticle. This was the goal !

    I need to take it out to the pasture at our highest point, were I can lase a known object at 770yds

    Results/Summary: L&S says they will replace the M5B2 turrets I have for the M5C2 turrets for $220. The C2 turrets are lower, I bet I'll be able to see over them. I might do that upgrade. I was thinking about it anyway since I do not like the B2 elevation turret.
     
    Curly Shuffle likes this.

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