Practicing with Night Vision

Discussion in 'Night Vision/Thermal' started by wigwamitus, Nov 1, 2014.

  1. wigwamitus

    wigwamitus LSB Active Member

    Joined:
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    2018-08-01
    2130-2200
    60F
    0 MPH WSW

    Goals: Testing SIMRAD

    Environment: No wind. Some clouds, no moon.

    Equipment: 5.56(18), L&S mk6 3-18x T3, PVS-9a, 2xmag w/5 rds each 77gr IMI. RAPTAR, ELIR-3 (tuned). Manfrotto M190 + 322RC2

    [​IMG]

    Activity: Setup at 100yds, turned on SIMRAD, left on lowest power. Day scope on 13x from last night.

    First group 2 inchs low and 2 inches right. Cranked SIMRAD 4 CCW on right hand "dial" facing front of SIMRAD. Cranked 8 CW on left hand "dial".

    Second group 2 inches high and centered. I'm still 0.5 inches low.

    Took thru lens pic of targets at 100yds.


    [​IMG]


    ==

    Looked at mineral feeder at 415 yds on top of ridge. Phone camera can't be "zeroed" on that image while I am trying to hold the camera just right behind the scope. And yes I did focus the SIMRAD ... but I can't focus and get the light right for the phone cam.


    [​IMG]


    ==

    Turned on the ELIR-3 which lite up the mineral feeder.


    [​IMG]


    The ELIR-3 can zoom down to a tiny beam or way out to a flood. Very useful.


    ==

    Summary/Results: Well, that's it for this first firing test of the SIMRAD. Everything worked tonight. Next time I want to go out to 500yds and try the steel.


    The SIMRAD is noticably lighter than the PVS-30 ... this rifle with the PVS-30 on there was a tough one handed carry for me. It is surprisingly light now.
     
  2. Shooter

    Shooter Bedford, Texas SUS VENATOR CLUB LoneStarBoars Supporter

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    what does the simrad cost.
     
  3. wigwamitus

    wigwamitus LSB Active Member

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    I've seen then running between $1,100 and $2,200 ... average around $1,500.

    There are two models these days, the PVS-9 (a.k.a. kn203) and the PVS-9a (a.k.a. kn253). The 253 is about a pound lighter and correspondingly smaller. I was told the 253 supports up to 12x on the day scope, though I'm running it fine at 13x. And I was told the 203 supports up to 15x on the day scope. I think 12x is plenty and I like the lighter weight for more mobility.
     
  4. wigwamitus

    wigwamitus LSB Active Member

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    2018-09-02
    1000-1215
    80F
    08 MPH SW

    Goals: Walk, test VSO

    Environment: Hot, humid, overcast.

    Equipment: 7.62(22) with NF 7-35x T3 and Spuhr mounts with IR&D Vampire SOLO (VSO) Ballistic Range FInder on COAX mount 12 o'clock. Manfrotto (not used), M118LR (175gr SMK)
    Pack with 1.2 gallons of water, 2xrear bags, First Aid, 2xMags with 5 rds each, chest rig with 6xmags with 5 rds each (and 3 mags with 5 rds each 5.56) , Compass, Radio, PTT, Bushy LRF, Kestrel, Note Pad and Pen (rite rain).
    Walking stick. About 39 pounds total.

    Activity: Walked out to 500yds FP, 900yds, left shoulder straining under the weight. Finally figured out it was the pack. Need to add the shoulder pads.

    Decided to try prone. From Prone I could see the top half of the lower target only. But I could see the top of the bull sticking out from down in the grass and that's enough to aim at.

    Pic from the firing point.

    [​IMG]

    Measured the wind with the new kestrel .. got spread roughly 3-6-9 (low avg hi).

    Got into posn and loaded and held 2.8 up per shooter and held for 6 MPH. POI center of bull.

    First rd hit! The target was twisting.

    Wind seemed to die, so held for four mph ... hit ...

    Third rd , 4 MPH hit ...

    Fourth rd, 4 mph hit ... same for 5th

    bTW I could not see any of the splotches of the hits on the target.

    Walked to target ... took target pic ... walked back.


    [​IMG]

    Color code on the circles. The RED circle is a shot from a different day. the green shots are current group.


    Decided to try for the face.

    Wind seemed to be higher ... held for 8 mph . first round hit twisting.

    Second rd miss high but centered, could see splash of dirt on the berm aligned with top of target.

    Wind higher. 3rd held for 10 mph ... hit

    Fourth round failed to fire. Checked primer looked dimpled ... reloaded it, tried again, fail to fire. This is the first M118LR I have had that FTF. And the dimpling was heavy.


    5th round held for 10 mph hit ..


    Fired second 5rd mag continued to hold for 10 mph for remaining shots ... got hits could not see splotches of hits on targets.

    [​IMG]

    The Red shot is different day. The orange shots are prior group. The Green shots are current group.

    Results/Summary:

    Group one at body of target ... elevation looks dead on centered on the center of the bull for the group. Center of group was 3 inches right. or just short of 2 mils not enough wind hold. Should've stuck with 6 mph.

    Group two at the face of the target. 9 rds center maybe a half inch low. Group center about 1 inch left ... 10 mph was a little too much 8 mph now quite enough ... I guess 9 would've been just right.

    Oh and actually the "miss" was a grazing miss right on top of the target. But two of the hits on the metal were clearly low with respect to the target of the face and hence they were misses.

    So out of 9 rounds that went down range, 7 tagged the face. The face is a 1.2 MOA target (6 inches of 500yds_. Basically a large dot drill at 500yds.

    I think I have 20 rds in this case of M118LR and then I will try a case of 500yds of FGMM 7.62x51 175gr ... maybe we will see less verticle spread in the groups ?


    VSO experiments:



    Tried six times to range the target, zero attempts succeeded. Had the LRF on "Forest" mode ... and since there was a lot of vegetation around the target, I was thinking "forest" would be good. Tried the target twice

    and clean part of the berm twice and the trees behind the berm twice. No return. There are parameters in the Rangefinder configuration section that I do not understand. Perhaps changing them will help.

    Also, perhaps FOREST is not the right setting for this range finder in this terrain.



    Shooter said to hold 2.8 mils up. That seemed to be dead on. The VSO when I aimed at the target, said to hold 1.52 mils up. I wiggled the aiming point up and down a tiny bit and the amount to hold

    varied between 1.50 and 1.54. I varied the amount a lot and the max I saw was to hold 2.53 mils up. Then I was aimed at a hill 100 foot higher, two tree lines behind the target berm and 600yds

    farther to the NNW.

    Perhaps there is some setting I am missing. Clearly, if I held 1.52 up I would be landing in the dirt WAY in front of the targets.

    Maybe I need to calibrate the level-ometer each time I turn the device on ?

    I'm building my own HPR100 (Heading, Pitch, Roll) and that one remembers the calibration. That's a $400 device ... a $4,500 device ought to be able to do same !



    But regardless, it very well could be me doing somethig wrong for both the ballistics and the ranging. That said, I think all the range finders I've had to range those targets .. .the Bushy Ar Elite 1600, the Radius and the RAPTAR.



    Oh I walked 3800yds in 135m ... which is just over 1 MPH ... of course I was stopped shooting for quite a bit. And again, I need to add the shoulder straps to the pack setup.
     
  5. wigwamitus

    wigwamitus LSB Active Member

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    UPDATE ... figured out why the VSO wouldn't range today ... I forgot to open the "door" that covers the glass !!

    ==
    Packed up and rolled back out on the 4 wheeler with the 7.62(22) with the VSO on top. Setup the manfrotto.

    1 - Ranged high steel target ... 499
    2- Ranged low steel target ... 503
    3 - Ranged left side of berm ... 501
    4 - Ranged right side of berm ... 504
    5 - Ranged tree to the right behind berm ... 507
    6 - Ranged tree in the center behind berm ... 513

    Ranging with the VSO in "FOREST" mode can range the targets, the berms and the trees!!

    take that issue off the table

    :)
     
  6. Chopperdrvr

    Chopperdrvr Deep East Tx SUS VENATOR CLUB

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    Note to self "always take off lens cover".
     
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  7. wigwamitus

    wigwamitus LSB Active Member

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    Got on whatsapp today with Belgium and worked thru the ballistics discrepancies. There is only one "velocity" unit of measure. I had first selected FPS thinking MV. But then the wind showed up in FPS and I wanted that in MPH. So I changed the UOM to MPH. I converted the MV from FPS to MPH and entered that.
    Well apparently, no one had ever done that before :D
    And the VSO software couldn't handle that.
    They will fix it, but in the mean time I need to run with velocity set to FPS. Doing that and now the elevation hold discrepancies are <= 0.1 mil out to 1,000 yds. Whew, the key issue is now resolved.
    I also downloaded a software update today and installed it into the VSO. Testing their support capabilities. So far A++.
     
  8. wigwamitus

    wigwamitus LSB Active Member

    Joined:
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    2018-09-05
    2030-2230
    60F
    10 MPH NNE

    Goals: Test VSO and RRS

    Environment: Cloudy, sprinkling, breeze from NNE (a the rarest direction for the wind ).

    Equipment: 7.62(22) 4xmags 5rds each M118LR (the last 20 rds of the first case), UTCx, VSO. 4-wheeler, helmet with pvs-14 and SKEET. RRS + Avil 30.

    Activity: Went out to roll the trash can out to the road, wore the helmet. Saw two deer, they didn't think I saw them, so ignored me and kept doing their thing.
    Both about 75yds away.
    On the way back saw a small critter by my zeroing target ... guessed it was a rabbit, since it wasn't moving (rabbits love the "no move" defese). Went and got the RRS and set it up ...
    then got the 7.62 and loaded up, turned on the UTC and focused. Yup, rabbit broadside right beside the target. Aimed center of mass aimed a smidgin' high and fired.

    Rabbit flew into the air then lay still ... approached and took pic.

    [​IMG]


    So, the first round fired off the RRS got a rabbit. The RRS is different from the Manfrottos I've been using for the past 33 months ... with the manfrottos you're managing the wobble

    ... but with the RRS, there is so much less wobble, that there is almost wobble ... a completely different experience.

    ==

    Then loaded onto the 4-wheeler and headed up to the top of signal hill. Setup .. saw my cows at 664 across on the East side of the pond. The SKEET detected cows in a pasture to the West.

    Pointed the UTC over there and could see two groups tiered up .. .they are in totally different pastures ... at different elevations ...

    [​IMG]

    Did a bunch of ranging with the VSO, the closer group is around 1200yds, that's the group the SKEET detected. That's the first time I've known I detected a group of critters with
    the SKKET that far out. I'm not surprised, but now it has happened.

    Ranged the second group a bunch of times and they averaged around 1800. The farthest cow I ranged was 1866. Now I'm trying to range the cows, but I could be ranging the ground around them.

    In general I ranged each "cow" three times.

    Results/Summary:

    Even on the weakest setting for the VSO, able to range over a mile ... the strongest setting is "3000" (not sure what the UOM is for that). And I have it on 100 right now. That's the lowest setting. Testing the edges.
    Belgium told me to turn it up in poor conditions like rain and sun. But it is still working fine.

    The RRS is amazing. The only thing I don't like is I wish I had more support to prevent it from canting when I pan. Trying to figure out which head works for that.
     
  9. wigwamitus

    wigwamitus LSB Active Member

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    Oh, here's a pic of the VSO on NF 7-35x T3 on 7.62(22) ... UTCx on front and PVS-14 with day/night adapter on back. The pvs14 was used, without the UTCx on there, to zero the VSO to the reticle of the day scope. Then the 14 DN adapter were removed and the utcx added.

    [​IMG]
     
  10. wigwamitus

    wigwamitus LSB Active Member

    Joined:
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    Messages:
    1,139
    2018-11-12
    1900-1945
    20F
    5 MPH NW

    Goal: Zero Radius on 5.56(10.3) night "spotter"

    Environment: Cool, snow on ground, overcast, fuzzy halo of new moon barely visible SSW.

    Equipment:

    Setup 01 - The night "spotter" is a 5.56(10.3) with a Trijicon Mk3 60mm for shooting out to 300yds at night and spotting out several thousand yards depending on conditions. I put this setup together to pair with a rifle with the UTC, again with this being the spotter. I use it up to 4x digital all the time at the net magnification of 18x equals the UTC high end of the sweet spot. Though the UTC has a clearer image at that magnification, the 18x on the Mk3 is still VERY useful. My holds are 6 inches up for 200yds, 12 inches for 250yds and 20 inches for 300yds. After that I'm "peppering" the target.

    The CQBL on 3 o'clock provides backup ir-laser aiming for out to 150yds. It can also be used as a laser designator much farther out.

    The Trijicon RMR RDS on the 1330 o'clock is also good out to 300yds for day shooting.

    So now I've added one more piece of crap to this "franken gun" ... the Radius ... on the 9 o'clock. This will enable the spotter to give a distance to the shooter. I still need an Azimuth device. When I have the Skeet on my head, the skeet provides azimuth in its display. But I might need to mount an HPR on this poor gun and I don't know where I will do that. I might have to put the laser on the 6 o'lock, the Radius on the 3 o'clock because as it stands now the HPR has to be on the 9 o'clock.

    I was able to relocate the forward sling mount from forward on the 9 o'lock to behind the Radius without it getting in the way of anything. It was a close call, but it is done.

    So, ready to zero !


    [​IMG]


    Setup 02 - This is my current night rifle a REM700 7.62(22) with a McCree G10 chassis a NF 7-35x T3 day scope and in this config a Night Optics Day/Night Adapter with a PVS-14. The usual UTCx was removed for this exercise.


    [​IMG]


    ==

    I also had my Team Hilary helmet with my other PVS-14.

    The night spotter carbine was on the RRS tripid, the night rifle was on a Manfrotto tripod.

    Activity:

    I setup the carbine on the RRS tripod and aimed the center of the reticle at the center of a mineral feeder at 415yds. I cranked up to 2x digital so I could be sure the reticle was in the center of the mineral feeder.

    I powered on the radius and the vis laser. I could see it with the helmet mounted 14. The vis laser was way high pointing up into the sky.

    I set up the rifle on the Manfrotto tripod and powered on the 14. I also powered on the lowest level of green illum in the NF so I could be sure the center of the reticle was in the center of the feeder.

    I needed to adjust down on the Radius. While I could not see the mineral feeder real well with the helmet mounted 14, when I finally got the Radius vis laser on the feeder it got a lot brighter. I could've done this whole exercise with just the 14 on the rifle, but having both of them speed up the process. I could use the helmet mounted 14 to get me on the feeder and then go back and forth to the rifle and the radius to fine tune to vis laser to the center of the feeder as seen by the rifle/14.

    I continued to check the mk3 60mm to make sure its reticle was still pointed at the center of the feeder. It never budged. Despite all the manipulation of the dials on the radius. That's the RRS at work, I do not think I would've gotten some movement if I was using two Manfrottos.

    So, once I got the radius vis laser centered, I ranged the feeder and got 416yds ... which is good. I don't setup in EXACTLY the same place every night so +/- 1 yard is fine. I then ranged a big tree in the West pasture and got 164yds and our metal building barn and got 47yds. And that's seeing those objects with the mk3 60mm thermal and ranging them with the radius. And I was able to do it with one person in about 10 minutes carrying all the crap back and forth. In the past, we've done this with two people.

    I thought I could use the radius with the fire button and not have to mount the pressure pad, but alas, it is awkward as I have to remove my support hand from under the carbine. So , I will add the pressure pad.

    Oh and even with all the crap on there, I can still hold up the gun and aim and I don't really detect any more weight. That's because this is a short gun and it is still well balanced and because I can put my support arm elbow on my chest to transfer weight to my body. The weight now is 11 LBS 3.5 OZ.


    ==
    So restated, here is short version of the process I used:

    01 - Setup 5.56(10.3) on RRS tripod
    02 - Setup 7.62(22) on Manfrotto tripod just to the right of the 5.56(10.3)
    03 - Aim reticle of mk3 60mm on 5.56(10.3) at center of mineral feeder at 415yds.
    04 - With PVS-14 on rear of NF scope, aim center of 7.62(22) reticle at the mineral feeder.
    05 - Turn on the radius aiming laser.
    06 - Adjust the radius aiming laser so it is pointed at the mineral feeder, use helmet mounted 14 to get into the ball park.
    07 - Keep checking the 5.56(10.3) to make sure the center of the thermal reticle is aimed at the center of the mineral feeder.
    08 - Fine tune the Radius on the 5.56(10.3) by checking on the 7.62(22) with the 14 behind.
    09 - Once the Radius on the 5.56(10.3) is zeroed, test several known distance targets. Aim the 5.56(10.3) thermal reticle at the target and check the range. Repeat steps 07, 08 and 09 if needed
     
  11. wigwamitus

    wigwamitus LSB Active Member

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    Messages:
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    Last week around the coop ...

    Opossum #1
    [​IMG]
    ==
    Opossum #2
    [​IMG]
    ==
    Yote
    [​IMG]
    ==
    Opossum #3
    [​IMG]

    ==
    And for those who think Opossum are just fuzzy little critters, around here with my neighbors, opossum and coon are the primary enemy for the chickens. My 3 neighbors that keep chickens, West, North and North have all been wiped out twice each by coons and opossum in the six years we've been out here. And has to the Yotes, I have seen the standing in the middle of the cows yip-barking in 2 am and the cows are getting up from being bedded down. They are harrassing the cattle, that's a death sentence. And right now our 14 females are calving and it was 7F this morning, so the cows need all the help they can get.
    So far, we've been lucky, 5 out of 5 calves have been born healthy. We have 9 more to go this winter.
     
  12. wigwamitus

    wigwamitus LSB Active Member

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    I looked for night capable cant indicator, inclination indicator and azimuth indicator. I'm a software guy, my buddy is a hardware guy, we collaborated and are building our own. Here is the second version

    [​IMG]

    ==
    This one is waterproof, shock proof and retains calibration between off/on. It can be side rail mounted or top rail mounted.

    [​IMG]

    This one weighs 11.3 OZ with batts. The earlier weight 6 OZ.

    [​IMG]

    The first one took 1 x c123, the second one took 2 x c123, but we finally solved the power consumption issue (bad board config on our side) and now we're building the third unit, which will have all the capabilities of the 2nd unit, in the smaller lighter housing of the first unit.
     
  13. havoc1300

    havoc1300 LSB Member

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    Can a armasight NV clipon be place in front of a Leupold Mark Ar green firedot or Vortex strike eagle 1x6x24mm ..will it cause a distortion
     
  14. wigwamitus

    wigwamitus LSB Active Member

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    Armasight NV clipon. Can you be more specific with the model ??

    Also not 100% sure what you mean by "distortion" ... not a term I normally hear in relation to NV/thermal scopes or clipons. Can you clarify "distortion" please ??
     
  15. havoc1300

    havoc1300 LSB Member

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    Armasight co mr Hd.....how will those reticles appear thru the device..
     

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  16. wigwamitus

    wigwamitus LSB Active Member

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    Well the reticles will be unchanged .. the clipon will be in front of the scope.

    Now the "image" in front of the scope will look like a typical green tube NV image ...

    ==
    Steel target at 500yds with full moon .. white paint on target.

    [​IMG]

    ==
    Regular NRA paper targets at 100yds ...

    [​IMG]

    ==

    mineral feeder at 415 yds hit by luna elir-3 illuminator (adjusted)

    [​IMG]

    ==
    Mineral feeder 415 yds with no illuminator

    [​IMG]

    ==
    Note all the pics are "thru the lens" which suck compared to the real image you see with your MKIEB.
     
  17. havoc1300

    havoc1300 LSB Member

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    Ok ...that's what I thought
     
  18. wigwamitus

    wigwamitus LSB Active Member

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    Last week ...

    Coon 121 yds in tree with 7.62(22) NF 7-35x UTCx RRS tripod, FGMM 175gr SMK
    [​IMG]

    Yote 168yds head on, came in to call, "Red Bel Woodpecker", had about busted me, I saw the head, then she moved laterally and I got PID, though I could only see about the top half, the turned and faced me for a final look and I took the shot. Same gun as above, though I had the carbine with me also.
    [​IMG]

    ==
    The guns I've been using lately ... usually taking both out and switching back and forth.

    5.56(10.3) Mk3 60mm, CQBL ir-laser, trijicon RDS on 45 ... use 77gr SMK (except for hogs, then use 62gr TSX)
    [​IMG]
    Radius on the 9 o'clock
    [​IMG]
    I think of this as my "night spotter (with a barrel) " and it works well for that.

    7.62(22) NF 7-35x T3, UTC-x, Radius, use 175gr SMK
    [​IMG]
     
  19. wigwamitus

    wigwamitus LSB Active Member

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    2019-01-01
    0130-0215
    10F
    10 MPH NW

    Goal: Cattle overwatch

    Environment: Cool, overcast, windy, light snow.

    Equipment: 5.56(10.3), mk3 60mm, Radius, 3-legged stick, IMI 77gr. Later 6.5G(18), L&S Mk6 3-18x t3 UTC-x, 123 ELD-M, Radius, RRS
    4-wheeler

    [​IMG]

    Activity: Went out, setup with the 3-leg and 5.56, fired up the mk3 60mm scanned out into the alfalfa patch and eventually picked out 3 yotes at around 3 hundred yards. Realizing I didn't have enough gun, went back in the house, got the 6.5G and the RRS came backout, setup, fired up the UTC and started to scan and right dead ahead the first thing I see is a yote coming at me about to go thru the fence and enter some dead ground, so I take a snap shot. The UTC was not totally tight on the rail and went off and would not refire (batteries died), so grabbed the 5.56, fired up the 60 and scanned around in the woods and about 15yds to the South I saw a fuzzy hot spot. Probably yote down. Jumped on the 4-wheeler, rode across the foot bridge, up a short hill and into the woods. Dis mounted and found the yote. Bullet enter top right shoulder and existed out the ass. Bloody back there.

    [​IMG]

    If 0 degrees was the yote snout and 180 the yote ass, I had about 10-20 degrees front right side facing me when I fired. It was a snap shot 2 seconds from time the UTC came out until the UTC went off. First yote of the year.

    Happy New Year !!!
     
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