THERMAL SCOPE SIDE BY SIDE COMPARISON.

[customcutter]

Here is one method shown on utube. I saw another one, where the black lines on white paper were actually visible, I use aluminum foil.

 

[Louis Richards]

Thank you. There is a company currently marketing thermal imaging paper targets, and from what I understand, Gander Mountain is the distributor. They're out of England. Thermbright.com I believe is the name. Will be calling them tomorrow to get information on them. Anybody by any chance have any experience with them here on this forum?

 

[rgilbert]

Yes I do. They do work, but it is a lot more money than a piece of foil. I believe TLM created a thread called "Thermal Targets on the Cheap". You may want to check it out. That is where I got the idea for foil.

 

[Louis Richards]

I tell you what, I'm no expert here, and I'm sure they make a better unit, but I don't believe I will ever need it. My Zeus's 640 3-24 75 resolution is fantastic and I just posted another thread, I don't see why I would need anything special to sight it in. I can see the Lugnuts on a cold tire hundred yards away? Seriously can. No problem with a middle spot on a target

OK vendors, here's your opportunity. Think I'm going to be looking for a PVS 14 Gen 3 goggles. (U can thank Wigwam) as well as an IR laser weapon mounted. Talk to me Armasight is the brand I want to go with. I feel very secure with the quality of their equipment and their warranties. Don't want to stray now.

As I said, I was researching for months, perhaps years before buying the Zeus 640. Armasight was my choice for thermal products, I can only assume night vision goggles are at the same awesome specs also.

What I would give for this exact same unit with a 2X

 

[wigwamitus]

Don't they make the exact same unit with a 2x? If I'm right, you might be able to "trade up(down)" somehow I would think. Maybe Optics Planet can help? Maybe Armasight can help? Maybe one of our vendors can help. Worst case, sell the 3x yourself and buy the 2x!

 

[Louis Richards]

The 2x is a 42 or 50 lens I forget. Wanted it in 75

 

[wigwamitus]

Yup I see the "fine print" the 2x std is a 42mm ... darn ... life is full of trade-offs ... but for me for shooting ... the 3x is fine ... I can hit what I'm aiming at fro 50yds to 500yds ... as long as there isn't too much cross wind ... but I can crank up or down on the elevation quickly and hit ... and this scope does TRACK. I just wish it has some hash marks on the reticle. But I'll keep practicing ... I think I can learn to hold for wind using the cross dor reticle.

I sold my .22lr and got a new upper the CMMG and it isn't here yet ... but I'd like to practice with the reticle with the .22lr ... to save ammo cost ... but need it to arrive first!!

 

[Louis Richards]

Haven't played with it enough to even know yet, but how do you adjust from 1 to 2 to 300 yards? I don't recall seeing that anywhere on the scope or in the manual as I glanced through it

 

[wigwamitus]

boresight elevation.

For my Zeus, on my 556(18) rifle shooting FLC xm193 55gr

-10 is zeroed at 100yds
-08 is zeroed at 350yds
-02 is zeroed at 500yds

So if I'm shooting at 297yds, I crank to -08 on elevation and hold down a little.
If I'm shooting at 52yds, I crank to -10 and hold down a little more.

 

[Louis Richards]

This is exactly why having a forum for things like this is great. These are questions that are almost impossible to answer on Google because as soon as you punch in the words thermal imaging it comes up with 10 billion things and most of them always general information about how it works or how to choose...

As I say, what was once a blessing has now turned into a horror show. Google just has TOO much information available. What good is a search engine that produces 1,256,000 results...

 

[hdfireman]

Louis, the PVS-14 is a monocular but can be made into goggles with a special mount. To do so would take another PVS-14. Are you wanting a PVS-14, 2 PVS-14's confided as goggles or a set of dedicated goggles?

 

[Louis Richards]

Trying to ascertain exactly what I want/need right now. I don't really see the advantage to having two monoculars. Yeah, I'm not really sure i've got an MSA helmet that I know would take a mount. Conversely, I'm not sure want to wear that helmet just to have mount.. Something interchangeable would be nice.

I'm assuming the advantage of goggles is you have a wider field of view vs monoculars? Though they both go to one so not sure. As usual, I need an education first before I can choose. First I would have to start with my needs? What am I looking to achieve? Let me research a little longer and figure out what I want, narrow it down and than I will post what I'm looking for

 

[wigwamitus]

It is fine to get one monocular first ... and then 2-6-12 months down the road decide to get a second one (or not). No need to determine everything in advance ...
I got one monocular first ... But ... Aaron was smart enough to sell me a dual bridge at first ... to allow room for expansion ...
(and a USGI mount as a spare )

==
For me advantages of wearing two 14s ... is double the amplified light entering my brain ... twice (almost) the information about what is in front of my eyes ... AND ... depth of field (better distance judgment) due to stereo vision. And if one of them cuts out for any reason, you still can see.

==
What are you trying to achieve with one monocular on your head? Ability to walk around without bumping into things or falling down. Ability to drive without crashing ... those are the basics. It can be done without 14s ... but you move slower. I speak from experience.

 

[Louis Richards]

Twice you said drive. So really, youre driving your car at night with them? I would think thermal much better for that. Hmmmm. The more I know the less I know. Now begs to question, if you can get a head rig to mount the Zeus 640 on my head?? Than night driving a breeze. Guess that would be my very first next purchase

I've been doing nothing the entire day and night but pondering this entire concept. It's driving me insane. It literally is. When do you use thermal? When do you use night vision with the laser? If I'm going to start going around with my NV and Laser picking off whatever, why did I get a thermal again? As I say, the more I know the less I know.

Yes I have seen the videos comparing NV to TWS. So I have to ask, just how often in actuality is a person hiding in such a situation I would be able to utilize my TWS over my NV. The questions can go on for infinity and so can the different variables.

Being a newbie, I have to say, when I first read the post by wig bout night vision in one eye and the thermal here and there I thought it was absolutely insane. Scarely a few days have went by and I'm in the market for the exact same hook up! If I am truly using the NV so I could walk around the woods and not bump into the trees, why not just get the goggles? What good is having one eye available if it's pitch black and you can't see anyway?

 

[wigwamitus]

... I've been doing nothing the entire day and night but pondering this entire concept. It's driving me insane. It literally is. When do you use thermal? When do you use night vision with the laser? ...

You will never be able to question the question to your satisfaction sitting in the house reading (IMHO) ... you need to get out and use them both and see the difference and then decide what works for you.
They are complementary systems ... each works best in conditions which are optimal for that technology. Each fails in non-optimal conditions.

I've been in a pasture with three deer (in shadows in a tree line) ... and the thermal saw three deer and the PVS-14 saw an empty pasture.

I've been in a pasture with my hot buggy in heavy mist at 200yds ... and the thermal saw solid gray nothing and the PVS-14 with 3x magnifier saw a shape.

==
I do not drive my road vehicles on road with NV/thermal. I do drive around my ranch/farm with nv/thermal but mostly on my buggy (which has a glass cab precluding use of thermal) and my 4-wheeler which is open to the air.

I would much rather drive with NV than thermal in the vast majority of conditions, because I can see the terrain details better, regardless of temperature or emissivity differences.

I got q-14 with the idea of mounting it side by side with pvs-14 on one helmet. The pvs-14 would be for driving, the q-14 for critter detection. That's where the thermal excels. For navigation the 14 is king.

But reading my words is insufficient, you need to find a place in the country where you can practice. Roaming around looking and shooting with NV/thermal in urban environments will not likely be a long lived career !!! ;)

 

[wigwamitus]

Oh ... 99% of the time even with only one 14 ... you DO receive information with the other eye. It might just be dark shadows ... but it HELPS.

==
If you really want "true" fusion, it can be had. Two ways.

AN/PAS-29 ...

https://****.com/wp-content/shopp_images/cache_320_320_0_100_80_16777215_COTI_mounted-1.jpg

This little guy clips on to your pvs-14 ... a thermal clipon for a 14 ... it projects the thermal information into the front of the pvs-14 objective.

It is not as good a thermal (smaller lens, 320 imager) as compared to my q-14 ... BUT it is "true" fusion, not "poor man's fusion" like I am trying to do.

AN/PAS-29 can be weapons mounted.

Note how the thermal is "peering" around the side of the glass EOTECH which it cannot see through. Yet in this case the operator still can see a fused image. The reticle is provided by the eotech and the NV by the pvs-14 and the thermal by the pas-29.

If you had nothing, then a full setup for pvs-14 with a coti and a helmet and mounts for the helmet and the weapon might run $11k. If your pocket book is heavier there is the ENVG

https://****.com/wp-content/shopp_images/cache_320_320_0_100_80_16777215_DSNVG_1-1.jpg

This is a single unit so even closer to REAL true fusion ...

IIRC, this one runs about $15k, though with helmet, etc. Make it $16k ... this one isn't weapons mountable (I dont' think) ...

Either pas-29 or PSQ-20 can be used with an ir-laser because they are i2 devices as well as thermal.

==
Two pvs-14s and a good helmet with mounts and weapons mounts might run $7-8K ...

One pvs-14 with a helmet and mounts and a weapons mount maybe $4k.

A usable ir-laser $160 or $220 with pressure pad.

A good ir-laser $800 with pressure pad.

 

[Louis Richards]

Can I mount my 640 on the head, they make such an apparatus? And I big to differ, the neighbors just adore it when I go out at night and shoot their pets

 

[Louis Richards]

I do agree, I think it was Brian in the original review, said the recessed buttons are bit of a pain and take a fair amount of pressure to depress them. And I too find myself moving faster than the buttons can keep up with. I noticed a big difference between day and night. Daytime everything seemed very crisp and brighter. Just now everything had kind of a haze to it. I know I should spend, better said NEED to spend, more time with it but got frustrated that I wanted to move faster than it was keeping up with me and already have stopped. Took me three minutes just to get it to power on because I kept moving fast and before I had a chance to enter the menu mode i was turning it back off. I need to slooooooow down I guess. That and the fact that there's no living creatures out anyway. I just can't seem to catch somebody driving up from work and I must have the only neighborhood in the history of mankind with no dogs outside. In short, I can't find a hotspot anywhere other than car engines. I know the buttons are recessed for obvious reasons but this is a bit overkill. And if you're not in menu mode you can't really accidentally press the buttons and have it do anything anyway, so IMHO, they should be raised higher and also take very little pressure to activate them. As long as you're not in menu mode who cares if you were to accidentally hit them anyway?

 

[wigwamitus]

You are asking if you can mount your 75mm Zeus 3x 640-30 on your head !!??



Well any apparatus can be made for $$ ... but I think the Zeus is too heavy and too bulky and the 3x fixed magnification reduces the field of view too much.
So I would not do it.

 

[Louis Richards]

Oh yes, I still find the main focus dial to be very hard to turn! It takes a considerable amount of effort to turn that thing and it scares me because a couple of times I have went pass the stop And the reason is because it's so hard to turn you can't really tell if it's a stop or not to begin with it takes so much pressure to get it going.

Is anyone else having that problem? I guess in theory I could actually have a problem with it I don't know.

In either case, after being excited about just getting it, the last thing I'm going to do is send it in for that minor problem. After reading the manual I understand that it's 3/4 total turn. I believe it would have helped immensely if they have put some kind of an indicator on top of one of the ridges so that you can get a feel for when the stops are coming.

When you're out in the field making tons of adjustments, it's really hard to remember whether you were in the middle or towards the end of the turn unless you're constantly making little notes to your brain. Now by looking at the white stripe I know exactly where I'm at, thus making it really hard to go past the stop.

So I have taken care of the problem by installing a white stripe myself I must have edited this post 25 times... And I am not exaggerating