THERMAL SCOPE SIDE BY SIDE COMPARISON.

wigwamitus

LSB Active Member
The Zeus is a dedicated rifle scope and that is it's strength and if you want to optimize those strengths then use it as a rifle scope.


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You are talking about the thermal spotter function ... that is different. Typically the thermal spotter is a small, fit in your palm sized thermal with a small lens and hence large FOV. This is great for general detection of critters. Once you detect them, then you need to identify and then if ROE permit, engage.
Identification can possibly be done with the spotter or with a pvs-14 perhaps with a 3x magnifier ... or with another team member with an i2 scope or clipon or with your rifle mounted thermal scope.

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The helmet mounted thermal scanners on the civilian market are mostly new ... the Armasight q-14 and the Ir-defense "ir-patrol" ... these are purpose built to be mounted on helmets and both may also be weapons mounted and of course they may be handheld scanners as well. They are smaller and lighter and less bulkier than the Zeus.

The older FLIR PS-24, or PS-32 or EOTECH 320 are classic handheld thermal spotters. I've heard of a guy who hunts with a PS-32 and a white tac light on his rifle. He finds the prey with his thermal scanner and then engages with his rifle and white light. I suspect he'd better be darn quick, but it sounds feasible.
 

wigwamitus

LSB Active Member
... Is anyone else having that problem? ...

Yes, but I got used to it when I had the Apollo ... just be careful ... and try to detect when the image is improving versus when it is not. Aim the device at something with crisp edges, maybe a tree trunk. And don't refocus every 10s ... focus on something at the average distance you will be looking at and leave it there ... if you are trying to scan with your Zeus. If you are actually shooting, then fine tuning can be done, time permitting.
The more you turn it, the sooner you will mess it up. But I think they can fix it if you do mess it up. I sent my Apollo back a couple of times for other reasons and the focus ring seemed like it got "retightened" each time.
 

Louis Richards

LSB Member
Now see, that little tidbit of information I don't think I would've found anywhere but on a forum with experienced users. I would have never dreamed that overutilizing the focus ring would lead to any issues at all other then tired fingers
 

wigwamitus

LSB Active Member
What I can't figure is why the focus rings don't have hard stops ... like day scopes do. But this "feature" has been present on every ATN or Armasight device I've had (not counting the PVS-14s) both i2 clipons and thermal systems. I assume there is a great reason, but I haven't been able to guess it.
I also messed on the "infinity stop" on one of the 14s ... but Armasight fixed that as well.
When Joe breaks 'em ... Armasight (or Aaron .. depending on how BAD I break 'em) fixes them!! :)
In general I focus all my NV/thermal crap at 100yds and leave it alone. There are exceptions, but that is the general rule.
 

Louis Richards

LSB Member
Armasight PVS7 alpha. Any vendors want to contact me with the differences between these units as with special pricing you may PM me. Looking to purchase in the next 72 hours.
 
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FrankT

Destin FL
LSB TURKEY BUZZARD PRESERVATION SOCIETY
LoneStarBoars Supporter
Look at the vendor section Louis, contact the folks there. FYI; Just randomly in a random thread is often over looked. All vendors have their contact info in their signatures or in their specific areas.
 

Louis Richards

LSB Member
Thank you Frank. Glad to know that and yes I never noticed. I only did that because a couple vendors contacted me with a p.m. and I told them when I was ready I would post it publicly. But I very much appreciate it.
 

Louis Richards

LSB Member
I have a question that has been eating away at me for quite some time, and research after research turns up nothing. Unfortunately once again, when you google night vision and thermal it produces nothing but a comparison of the two or an explanation of the two. My question is this?

Can anyone tell me if there is absolutely any advantage to night vision versus thermal imaging? All things being equal now. In other words, if night vision is offered in 1X and thermal is not, I'm not looking for you can walk around the woods with night vision because only NV comes in 1X. I mean in other actual applications. I would call that a magnification advantage and not necessarily the other.

Is there any situation in every day real life, all examples are welcome, where I would be glad that I owned a night vision device in addition to my thermal? The only one I can think of is that you can use an IR laser with it to shoot things
 

BigRedDog

LSB Active Member
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Vendor
LoneStarBoars Supporter
if you drive around in your truck, you can see in front of you with night vision and cannot with thermal.

the glass defeats the thermal
 

Drift

LSB Member
(1) If $ is important to you, night vision ( PVS14)is cheaper smaller lighter then IR
(2)The night vision (PVS14 again)can be more flexible if that is important to you. It can be use used as a monocular, spotting scope, rifle scope, clip on or camera lens-I know of no single IR device that can do all that.
(2a) For me I use a PVS14 to move through the heavy woods to find my stand. I then put the PVS on my rifle and night hunt. Come daylight, I take the PVS off and day hunt. I know of no single IR device that will allow that.
 

Louis Richards

LSB Member
Thermal vs night vision was a very hard decision on my part that's for sure. I guess it all came down to being able to use one during the day while the other one became useless. That's a major advantage to know I can go outside in broad daylight and spot somebody walking to the woods. But now that I have it, I'm realizing it is not the end all. And I'm back in the market for night vision now :)
 

Louis Richards

LSB Member
So everyone be as honest with me as you can. I know that possibly some may have a tendency not to answer this as it may involve saying something bad about a product line... I do not know that for sure, and it's pure speculation at best. So don't hold it against me :)

But would it be safe to say, that the clarity shown in videos that are being produced by companies showing their thermal vision are not ever going to be obtained in real life? Since I purchased from Armasight, of course, that would involve them also. I just can't help but feel that the clarity, sharpness and crispness of the images that I am seeing can hold a candle to the videos that I watch showing them in use as examples.

I have no issues with a company picking the absolute best circumstance for thermal vision to produce its best image. I wouldn't think that would be deceiving. Because bottom line, if I were to use my equipment during that exact set of circumstances, I could reproduce the image that I saw on the video. As long as there is a situation that my equipment can produce a picture equal to the picture in the videos, even if it's a rare happening, I'm still OK with that. That's one way.

Another way, would be to take the actual image in its best light, and then Doctor or touch up the image or picture being shown in the video to make it look better than the equipment is actually ever capable of producing. and that I would not be happy about.

I do not have hundreds of hours with this equipment to say. All I can say, is that I cannot produce such clarity that I'm seeing in the videos.
 

Brian Shaffer

Hog Hunter
SUS VENATOR CLUB
LoneStarBoars Supporter
So everyone be as honest with me as you can. I know that possibly some may have a tendency not to answer this as it may involve saying something bad about a product line... I do not know that for sure, and it's pure speculation at best. So don't hold it against me :)

But would it be safe to say, that the clarity shown in videos that are being produced by companies showing their thermal vision are not ever going to be obtained in real life? Since I purchased from Armasight, of course, that would involve them also. I just can't help but feel that the clarity, sharpness and crispness of the images that I am seeing can hold a candle to the videos that I watch showing them in use as examples.

I have no issues with a company picking the absolute best circumstance for thermal vision to produce its best image. I wouldn't think that would be deceiving. Because bottom line, if I were to use my equipment during that exact set of circumstances, I could reproduce the image that I saw on the video. As long as there is a situation that my equipment can produce a picture equal to the picture in the videos, even if it's a rare happening, I'm still OK with that. That's one way.

Another way, would be to take the actual image in its best light, and then Doctor or touch up the image or picture being shown in the video to make it look better than the equipment is actually ever capable of producing. and that I would not be happy about.

I do not have hundreds of hours with this equipment to say. All I can say, is that I cannot produce such clarity that I'm seeing in the videos.

It is safe to say that you had the benefit of dozens of videos from fellow members to view. If you did not take advantage of these videos, that is on you.

Several of the videos used by Armasight are from LSB members.

Armasight apparently produces some of their own under fairly ideal conditions of very low humidity. They are in California. Many of their videos are short distance images and look great as a result. You can duplicate that.
 

Louis Richards

LSB Member
My God! I am just totally embarrassed for as many times as I have read those reviews, I don't know how many times I have, after you said that I went back and looked and there it is on the very first post a big square. I don't know how on earth I didn't see that .. LMBO at myself through all this time I just thought that was an emblem of the loan star boars. I should mention and would be a great time I'm colorblind red/green, so the big red play button doesn't jump out at me like others. It was right over the hogs nose. I just thought that was your emblem. Absolutely fantastic I'm going to go watch and see if your clarity and sharpness is equal to what I am seeing :)
 
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Louis Richards

LSB Member
Also I should say, I have a habit of glancing over introduction type stuff. Things like we did a review, pictures of guys setting up on tables, things like that never interest me. I go right for the hard-core stuff and went to the first review about the products
 

Louis Richards

LSB Member
Well there you go. I guess I got my answer after watching the videos. I'm not sure I want to post it though, everyone may laugh at me... But if y'all promise, without holding your cross fingers behind your back, I'll tell you what the problem has been all along. Promise??? OK, I'm holding everyone to it.

My neighborhood is a pretty quiet and a safe neighborhood. Just not a lot of activity going on. I sleep most of the day and stay up all night. As you can tell, it's 530 in the morning. Plus I don't want my neighbors seeing a guy standing out in the street looking at their homes and houses as they may start to get a little skeptical or suspicious of me, or at a minimum think I'm crazy, so I wait until an hour that I know everybody's in bed.

Problem with that? I never have a hot subject. So everything that I have been looking at, even though there's many different ranges of heat, like the road and the car engines are hotter than the surroundings, and they do have a tendency to stand out, I've never had a hot object yet.

As I was watching the videos on your review, I wasn't looking at the hot subject, I was looking at it surroundings and I said heck, it's all blurry too. In fact, every single scene in the video I watched on the review, everything was blurry except for the subject. So I dragged my wife out of bed, made her go stand outside, oh my goodness, what can I say, clarity and sharpness all the way :)

I've been lacking something hot is all the problem is. I was assuming foolishly, that because the road was always standing out, and car engines were always standing out, that was the same thing as a "hot" object. Boy I was not even close. I could see every detail of my wife, and instantly knew I'd been making a big mistake and understood why everything always constantly looked blurry and hazy to me. Because, what I thought was hot, well, it was cold...
 

BigRedDog

LSB Active Member
SUS VENATOR CLUB
Vendor
LoneStarBoars Supporter
James, would you like for me to loan you a military 'hot' target?

Then you have a constant to help judge performance.
 

Ratdog68

LSB Official Story Teller
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LoneStarBoars Supporter
So? Two new discoveries? There are videos included in many reviews... and he's found out his wife is hot? That about sum it up? LOL
 
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