THERMAL SCOPE SIDE BY SIDE COMPARISON.

[Louis Richards]

Brian again, this was my first day on the site, I don't know who is who, vendor or not. I was just making a general point that really wasn't that important to begin with. I was just simply saying through many of my post (the big picture, not the tiny one where I mentioned that) that based upon what I had read discounts were not available anyway. It's just not that big of a deal I think, and I really think that everyone else is making too big of a deal of it. I think I've already made all my points as much as I can make, so I'd rather just let the subject die.

Hey everyone, I bought my scope from Optics Planet and I'm very satisfied my purchase Now, can we just leave it there?

 

[Wildfowler]

To sight in in the daytime (bright sun and very hot) I staple a small square of water soaked cardboard on a paper target. It will show up as cold for the duration of your shooting station.

This is assuming you have a permanent backboard (soaking up heat of the sun) to staple a paper target into.

 

[FrankT]

No you mis understand, IF you ever have an issue...it was pretty obvious. good luck sir, I am outta here

 

[Beacon22]

I bought my ATN ThOR from Optics Planet over a year ago now. I called them and asked for pricing on a certain model. The customer service person quoted me a price.

About 15 minutes later I got a call from a sales rep and he asked me if I was considering a ATN. I stated that I was and the model I was interested in. He immediately told me that he could give me $1000. off the price that the customer service person had quoted me. I told him that I would get back to him. He was like a car salesman in that he didn't want to let me off the phone.

I thought it over for about an hour then called back and asked for him by name. I asked if for that same discount could I get an upgraded model. He agreed. So I ended up getting about $1085. off the model that I chose. This,over the Optics Planet internet advertised price.

I get thick dull black poster paper from Wal Mart. I put a small piece of aluminum duc tape(about 1.5"X1.5")on it. I put it so that the sun shines directly on it. After about 15 or 20 minutes there is a heat differential enough for the tape to glow brightly. I ended up using a red hot setting. The tape will not glow on black hot(with my unit). If you have a thermal with different heat settings,you have to experiment with which one has the best resolution.

AND ------ with my thermal anything over 6X is just about completely unusable. It is ok for detection but not for targeting. --- pruhdlr

Which Thor did you get? How do you like it?

 

[customcutter]

Louis, welcome to the forum. Seems like a tempest in a tea pot. It's your money, spend it where and how you want. Could you have beaten the deal at OP? Yes, I did several months ago, and by a pretty fair amount. A vendor here, had the opportunity to earn my business. I told him the deal at OP, asked him for his best price, and did the same with some other vendors. The only price any of them got was the price that OP has on their site. I don't play games one against another. A different vendor from off the site got my business. When I buy again I'll try to deal with vendors here, maybe they will earn my business next time. Good luck with your new scope.

 

[Louis Richards]

I didn't get the price that was advertised at OP, I got an additional 10% off. $5880.

 

[Louis Richards]

It just arrived and I am fumbling through trying to figure out how to use this thing being this my first time. First thing I did was put the batteries in backwards, thank God has reversed polarity protection. Can't IMAGINE why they would've incorporated that feature into this thing...

 

[Louis Richards]

Pretty much everything I have read before this even got here told me that almost everyone uses black and white with black hot. I tend to agree after looking at videos. Color complicates the heck out of the background to me. My question is, why would anybody use color? Rainbow this and rainbow that? Is there any advantage to using color that anybody is aware of? Or do you think is just a sales pitch and looks cool in videos?

Maybe I'm just weak in the hands, which actually I truly am, but that focusing ring sure is hard to turn...

 

[wigwamitus]

... My question is, why would anybody use color? Rainbow this and rainbow that? Is there any advantage to using color that anybody is aware of? Or do you think is just a sales pitch and looks cool in videos? ..

You must be right ... it is just a sales pitch!

==
That being said I use the color pallets as follows:

rain - despite the name ... this pallet actually happens to work well in the RAIN. I didn't realize why it was called RAIN until I tried it in the RAIN. I could see cows at about 400yds with pvs-14 and 3x magnifier ... but with white hot and black hot ... I could only see faint fuzzy blobs ... that I could not even recognize as being critters.
With RAIN pallet I could see some red/pink/yellow cows on a blue/green background.

custom OEM - or as I call it "red hot" ... advantages ... greatly reduced eye strain ... so when holding thermal up to right eye while looking through pvs-14 with left eye ... I do not get headaches ... even if doing thise for 80% of 2 hours. "red hot" also increases stealth by reducing ability of critters to see splash of light on my face. and "red hot" seems to increase battery life. Also "red hot" is positioned 1 click away from "white hot" ... so if I see something I want to see better, white hot is one click away.

Sepia - sepia is "poor man's" red hot. It has all the advantages outlined for "red hot" above ... just not quite to the same extent. But q-14 does not have "red hot" so I use sepia instead for the q-14.

If looking intently at a critter of interest or shooting, I swtich to white/black hot (except in the rain). But for general observation/detection I use "red hot" or sepia to reduce eye strain.

There have been a couple of cases where deer were standing on top of a ridge ( I could see them with PVS-14 ) but with white/black hot ... somehow they blended into the sky and were not visible ... in that case "fusion" somehow lite up the deer so they were visible ... their backs were visible ...

==

Perhaps the focus rings are hard to turn on purpose. I think if you turn them too much you break them. They only turn about 3/4 of a turn ... so after that the hardness would be on purpose to prevent breakage. I try to turn gently back and forth and "straddle" the sharpest image ... and the bisect my way into it.

==

... First thing I did was put the batteries in backwards ...

I change batteries in the dark quickly without issue. It just takes practice ... I think with the "PRO" lines it doesn't matter which way you put them in. But with the "STD" lines it does though it is consistent ... so easy to repeat with some practice.

==

... I got an additional 10% off. ...

I'm sure you got the best possible deal you could get!!!

 

[customcutter]

I didn't get the price that was advertised at OP, I got an additional 10% off. $5880.

They were advertising that on the site when I bought mine. I called about it 2 weeks in a row, and was told each time that it didn't apply to the thermal scopes. Prices are getting better, and in another few months you could get an even better deal.

 

[Brian Shaffer]

You must be right ... it is just a sales pitch!

==
That being said I use the color pallets as follows:

I will have to try "rain" in the rain. As for eye strain, neither black or white hot causes me any trouble. I do like sepia, but I would like sepia a lot better if there was a black hot version.

It would be nice if manufacturers could explain why they include such psychedelic palettes. I did talk to one of the folks at either IRD or Armasight who basically told me that they included them because other companies include them and that they didn't want to lose sales because they didn't include a feature that costs nothing to include, but that somebody might think is useful and hence not buy their unit. Maybe so, but I could be perfectly happy with white hot and black hot and none of the rest (but maybe rain, we shall see).

I think a lack of explanation for the palettes is just the tip of the problem with manufacturers and their explanations. The manuals tend to be pretty pitiful in explaining why features are present, what they are really for, and how best to use them. Based on dealing with them, I do get the impression that often, they really don't know, despite making them.

 

[wigwamitus]

The one color palate other than the typical black or white choices I have noted above that I did like and was found in the Zeus was Sepia. This was basically a white hot color palate with a more tan background that was somewhat easier on the eyes in my opinion.

I find Sepia easier on the eyes also ... but "red hot" even easier! Unfortunately the q-14, on which I would use it, doesn't have "red hot" .... the Zeus ... where I wouldn't ... does have it !

I'm willing to believe the manufacturers/manual writers don't know how to use this stuff . When I first saw "red hot" I too thought it was silly ... then I found a way to use it that is worth it for me ... I could use "red hot" when I had the apollo because I could (and did) carry it around on a lanyard sometimes and used it as a spotter. But these days, with the q-14, I'll be using sepia instead.

 

[Louis Richards]

That was excellent information Wigwam, thanks!!! But other than rain, almost every single article, if not every single article, says that all users will wind up with either black hot or a white hot and never use color at all.

I have to wonder why it comes with an extra battery holder. Like an extra clip for a gun I guess, not that it's all that hard to insert two batteries into the one vs two, but I'm glad to have an extra

Video latency? A new term I just learned over there yonder ways at the ar15 site, a site I try to stay clear of, very touchy people over there... Brian, when I was watching your video, it didn't look like you had to lead all that much. But they show this one video of a coyote and my goodness, he was shooting so far in front it was really almost impossible to calculate!

That's something I never even thought of and never crossed my mind and shows how complicated the shooting of fast animals may turn out to be. Or any moving object actually. Trying to calculate in your head the speed of the object moving versus the video latency seems to equal not attempting to shoot anything that is in motion. And just wait for it to be stationary. Seeing as I'm not that great of a shot, I doubt I would ever attempt, but then again, you never know, so I am curious if anyone knows the video latency of this unit? The poster said that very seldom is it ever listed by any manufacturer, and he seems to be correct, as all my research does not yield the answer to this.

My initial impressions are weak, but NOT because of the unit, as it appears to be pretty awesome. But just because this is my first time in there and there were things I weren't planning on for starters, MY EYES. Look into that thing for even a few seconds and then looking around my surroundings I am almost literally blind. Kind of scary in a tactical situation. Looking forward to this red hot wigwam talked about in custom, I'll have to check that out.

I guess my biggest problem was just getting the thing focused. I had a hard time focusing it then I'm used to with my 3 x 12 AR scope...obviously. But still. I mean you walk out to the woods and everything is really dark and hard to see and there's no heat images. So it's really hard to find a point to focus on to begin with. When I walked out into the street in my neighborhood of course it was much easier. So I guess I'm asking myself, if I'm going to the woods hunting, how exactly do I focus this thing, I can't really see anything anyway, because it's all dark?

Brian I know you said they had a 2x, in fact they have a 1.5 also. And I took your advice and stuck with the three, seems to be a universal Way to go. And 3X was the only option offered with the 75 mm anyway and I was definitely stuck with going with the larger lens I wasn't going to alter that. That was a must for me. The 1.5 and 2 were 42. And I believe possibly 50.

But in my heart of hearts, I think a 1.5 would've been perfect for me if only offered in a 75mm. Again, I'm not as much a hunter as I am preparing for any tactical situation. I just think for tactical, I want 1.5, as I envision encounters especially indoors of a building or inside of a house. Where if no lights, this thing would have a one up like no other!! But with 3X would make it somewhat difficult to spot close up. I also understand I am not on a tactical website, but one dedicated to shooting wild pigs, Prodominantly in Texas only

I just want to have the best of all worlds, and I will be very glad I have this 3x for ANY shots around 100 yards I am positive.

 

[Louis Richards]

Brian I actually learned that from you on one of your earlier post as well, about the colors, and I'm glad you reinterated it here. I was shocked to see that the owners manual offered absolutely NO information on the color palettes, other than its title, rainbow. Now what the hell is that supposed to be?

 

[Louis Richards]

The coyote vid I was talking about. Talk about an awesome shot. Actually I just noticed for the first time his reticle seems to be very low also what is that all about? I wouldn't be that far off only 200 yards
.

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=755488964483843

 

[customcutter]

Louis, most of the DVR's don't record the horizontal crosshair. That is why it looks like he is holding low. Also he is at 2x his native magnification, so if his scope is a 3x he is at 6x, if it is a 4x native then he is at 8x magnification. Hope this helps.

 

[Louis Richards]

Louis, most of the DVR's don't record the horizontal crosshair. That is why it looks like he is holding low. Also he is at 2x his native magnification, so if his scope is a 3x he is at 6x, if it is a 4x native then he is at 8x magnification. Hope this helps.


I have SOOOO much to learn

 

[Beacon22]

The coyote vid I was talking about. Talk about an awesome shot. Actually I just noticed for the first time his reticle seems to be very low also what is that all about? I wouldn't be that far off only 200 yards
.

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=755488964483843

That is a lot of lead on that Coyote but the Reticle isn't low it just appears low because the horizontal leg of the reticle is not showing up in the video. That used to happen in some of my videos using an earlier Thor unit. They have since changed that glitch.

 

[Brian Shaffer]

I would be surprised if ATN actually changed the units to control for that problem as it went on for years with their units, and units of other brands.

I really do wish that when the display said "2x" that it was really "2x" and not "2x * native magnification = __ magnification. Pulsar's units show the actual magnification when they zoom, which is nice.

The fix would be easy for companies to do. The problem is that it would require different firmware for different models and I guess several of the companies are just too lazy to do that, though I would think in the whole process, this would be one of the simplest changes they could make in making the units.

I also wish they would not round up #s. A 1.5x scope is NOT 2x, though it is advertised that way. When zoomed 4 times, it does not become 8x. That just compounds the inaccuracy of the original estimate.

 

[Beacon22]

I would be surprised if ATN actually changed the units to control for that problem as it went on for years with their units, and units of other brands.

I really do wish that when the display said "2x" that it was really "2x" and not "2x * native magnification = __ magnification. Pulsar's units show the actual magnification when they zoom, which is nice.

The fix would be easy for companies to do. The problem is that it would require different firmware for different models and I guess several of the companies are just too lazy to do that, though I would think in the whole process, this would be one of the simplest changes they could make in making the units.

I also wish they would not round up #s. A 1.5x scope is NOT 2x, though it is advertised that way. When zoomed 4 times, it does not become 8x. That just compounds the inaccuracy of the original estimate.

Yup, ATN must have changed it at the very least in late 2014 as the Thor I purchased at that time no longer had the issue. My hunting buddy then bought one after me and his also did not have the reticle issue either.