TEXASLAWMAN
Lone Star Boars Owner
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Practicing with Night Vision
- Thread starter wigwamitus
- Start date
See...all that practicing paid off. Great job guys.
wigwamitus
LSB Active Member
2015-01-15
2200-2230
30F
0 MPH
Goal: Just walking around our buildings with the thermal.
Environment: Extremely clear, no i^2 needed ... stars very visible (no moon).
Equipment: Apollo as a hand held monocular.
Activity: Saw two creatures near our wood shed. I started stepping towards them and stopping. At first 3 steps, stop for 30s. But then changed to 2 steps, stop for 1m. I got to 30yds (distance measured later) when the closest creature alerted. With its head up, I could clearly ID as a rabbit. I no longer moved. But after about 15s, the closest rabbit moved to where the farther rabbit had been (to the side of the wood shed, relative to me) and the farther rabbit moved behind the wood shed relative to me. This increased the distance between me and the closets rabbit to 45yds. I backed off. I don't want to teach them that I will come after them.
Results: A useful encounter. I saw that rabbits are aware enough to avoid a creature approaching to 30yds. At least I saw it once
.
It would be nice to get DVR again. I can't find mine. I think I outsmarted myself and stored it in a "safe" place.
2200-2230
30F
0 MPH
Goal: Just walking around our buildings with the thermal.
Environment: Extremely clear, no i^2 needed ... stars very visible (no moon).
Equipment: Apollo as a hand held monocular.
Activity: Saw two creatures near our wood shed. I started stepping towards them and stopping. At first 3 steps, stop for 30s. But then changed to 2 steps, stop for 1m. I got to 30yds (distance measured later) when the closest creature alerted. With its head up, I could clearly ID as a rabbit. I no longer moved. But after about 15s, the closest rabbit moved to where the farther rabbit had been (to the side of the wood shed, relative to me) and the farther rabbit moved behind the wood shed relative to me. This increased the distance between me and the closets rabbit to 45yds. I backed off. I don't want to teach them that I will come after them.
Results: A useful encounter. I saw that rabbits are aware enough to avoid a creature approaching to 30yds. At least I saw it once
.It would be nice to get DVR again. I can't find mine. I think I outsmarted myself and stored it in a "safe" place
.
wigwamitus
LSB Active Member
I am still trying to assimilate learnings from hunting trip with TLM and Delta 9-10 Jan 2015.
First, this was my first hunt since I ws a teen and those teen hunts were ad hoc affairs, shooting at a bird or a squirrel with a bow or a 22. Also they were many eons ago. So effectively, I would say last weekend's hunt was my first ever hunt.
I missed two hogs I shot at and I hit two hogs I shot at. So why did I miss those two hogs? There might be 100 reasons, but I want to try to figure out the "primary" reasons and see if I can practice/train to improve in those areas.
01 - Count down
Believe it or not, I think the main issue for me might have been the "count down" thingy. I had been told, by Delta, that we would be doing a count-down: 3, 2, 1 bang. And that sounded simple enough over the phone, so I did not think about it. Having done it now, I realize that at least for me, it is not trivial and I do need to practice that. In theory it should be easier if I am counting down and the first night TLM had me doing the counting down, but I still missed once. The second night, I asked TLM to do the count down and I still missed once. I could not time my aim to align with the "zero" moment in the count down. Probably everyone else can do this easily, but I cannot. But, I believe it will be easy to practice this. I can just start counting down when ever I am shooting from standing position. So, the good news, is that I should be able to train to mitigate this issue.
02 - Mental Readiness
The second night, there was a big gap (2 hours?) between the first pig (which I hit) and the second pig which I missed. Riding in the back in TLM's "swamp truck" I was having to lean over sideways. There were rifle racks on the ceiling and my helmet could not fit under them and allow me to sit up straight (I am 5 11 and 7 eights) so I had to sit sideways. After two hours of sitting sideways I think I was a bit "numbed" mentally. When we got out of the vehicle and deployed to shoot, there was no time to get "un numbed" ... any wasted time might result in the hog alerting to us and moving off. The onus was on me to get my brain ready and I couldn't do it. I think I can train for this also. I do sometimes setup my targets in advance and then walk out to the targets and shoot, but I usuallly take my time before I shot and get ready, both physically and mentally. I need to not do that. I need to walk into the area and then try to force myself to quickly shoot before I am "ready". I also need to think about being ready all the time and not just when it is "time to be ready". I think I had glimpses of this idea earlier, but this trip has brought the idea into clearer focus in my brain.
03 - Zero before trip
I had been changing my mind about which rifle to use and right before the trip, the 5.56 had to go to the shop to get setup for the new silencer. I had almost decided to go with the 7.62 as the primary any way after listening to TLM's comments after his bout with the 300+ Zombie hog and the removal of the 5.56 from the ready list, meant I was going with the 7.62. Before I left I got the ir-laser solidly zeroed, but ran out of time to get the thermal zeroed. I had hoped to be able to zero at Aaron's or elsewhere before we went out. That didn't happen. I think I was a little high but centered. During the day we tried to have me zero on Saturday, but conditions didn't allow me to have a good small aiming point, so not sure I got a solid zero, though probably improved what I started with - might have been a little low. So this is simple lesson, do whatever it takes to finish zeroing in plenty of time before departing on hunt. Stay up all night if needed. I stacked off in this area. Sounds really dumb to say it.
==
11 - Situational Awareness and team coordination
I don't think this affected accuracy, but it an important learning regardless. We needed to synch up for a few minutes before we went out in terms of protocol. Since TML had a brass bag on his right side, it made sense for me to stand on his right. Then his brass wouldn't hit me and my brass wouldn't hit him. While we were in column when moving, once TLM deployed his stick, I needed to immediately move to his right elbow and I did not, I stood waiting for instructions. In hind sight it seems simple to note that I should've just moved to the correct spot. I did not want to scan to my left as that would be moving my barrel towards TLM. I did scan to my right. There was usually at least one hog in "front" of us, which TLM desigated by how he set up. But what was to the left or right? I scanned right 90 degrees and back to the front and I believe he did same to the left, but one time I was not aware of more hogs farther away to the left. Had I been right on his elbow, he could have nudged and pointed, but I was too far away at that point. Not until after we shot the first hog, was I aware he was scanning to the left and whispering about more hogs over there. In the event these hogs got away, primarily because I was fumbling the coordination.
I've shot at night 100 or more times over the past two years but only once with another person and we fired singly not as a group/team. I would love to have someone to shoot with at night, but no one near me seems to be interested. I will have to mentally prepare by reciting the procedure in my head when I set up and shoot. Something like ... "Identify primary target" ... "move single file" ... "Set up" ... check primary target ... quickly scan the sides for other targets ... check team ready to fire ... count-down ... fire ... quickly scan the sides and begin wait ... if new targets appear, redploy setup as needed to present "front" to new targets" ... check team ready to fire ... count-down ... fire ... quickly scan for more targets. Repeat until no targets or until wait period over ... go check results at targets down.
All that makes complete sense ... in the event I was waiting too much for instructions instead of moving to the correct spot instantly.
==
21 - Ammo
I think shot placement is probably more important than having the best bullet, but having the best bullet is not a bad thing. I tried using 168gr AMAX and now realize I should have tried 165gr SST. I have ordered some harnady loaded 165gr SST. I will run this piston gun on "suppressed" mode once I get the harvester and might even try running on suppressed mode (there are 4 settings on the gas block) with the 165gr SST ammo. One user said he twice broken his firing pin retaining pin shooting 165gr hornady factory loads. And this user said the reason was due to over-pressurization as the hornady load is a bolt gun load. Until I get my reloading going, I will have to live with the factory loads.
In the event, I don't think my ammo made any difference in the results, but it could have had things been different. And there is no reason not to carry the best ammo for the task.
==
I will continue to rack my brain for learnings, but this is the first group.
==
Any thoughts welcome.
==
First, this was my first hunt since I ws a teen and those teen hunts were ad hoc affairs, shooting at a bird or a squirrel with a bow or a 22. Also they were many eons ago. So effectively, I would say last weekend's hunt was my first ever hunt.
I missed two hogs I shot at and I hit two hogs I shot at. So why did I miss those two hogs? There might be 100 reasons, but I want to try to figure out the "primary" reasons and see if I can practice/train to improve in those areas.
01 - Count down
Believe it or not, I think the main issue for me might have been the "count down" thingy. I had been told, by Delta, that we would be doing a count-down: 3, 2, 1 bang. And that sounded simple enough over the phone, so I did not think about it. Having done it now, I realize that at least for me, it is not trivial and I do need to practice that. In theory it should be easier if I am counting down and the first night TLM had me doing the counting down, but I still missed once. The second night, I asked TLM to do the count down and I still missed once. I could not time my aim to align with the "zero" moment in the count down. Probably everyone else can do this easily, but I cannot. But, I believe it will be easy to practice this. I can just start counting down when ever I am shooting from standing position. So, the good news, is that I should be able to train to mitigate this issue.
02 - Mental Readiness
The second night, there was a big gap (2 hours?) between the first pig (which I hit) and the second pig which I missed. Riding in the back in TLM's "swamp truck" I was having to lean over sideways. There were rifle racks on the ceiling and my helmet could not fit under them and allow me to sit up straight (I am 5 11 and 7 eights) so I had to sit sideways. After two hours of sitting sideways I think I was a bit "numbed" mentally. When we got out of the vehicle and deployed to shoot, there was no time to get "un numbed" ... any wasted time might result in the hog alerting to us and moving off. The onus was on me to get my brain ready and I couldn't do it. I think I can train for this also. I do sometimes setup my targets in advance and then walk out to the targets and shoot, but I usuallly take my time before I shot and get ready, both physically and mentally. I need to not do that. I need to walk into the area and then try to force myself to quickly shoot before I am "ready". I also need to think about being ready all the time and not just when it is "time to be ready". I think I had glimpses of this idea earlier, but this trip has brought the idea into clearer focus in my brain.
03 - Zero before trip
I had been changing my mind about which rifle to use and right before the trip, the 5.56 had to go to the shop to get setup for the new silencer. I had almost decided to go with the 7.62 as the primary any way after listening to TLM's comments after his bout with the 300+ Zombie hog and the removal of the 5.56 from the ready list, meant I was going with the 7.62. Before I left I got the ir-laser solidly zeroed, but ran out of time to get the thermal zeroed. I had hoped to be able to zero at Aaron's or elsewhere before we went out. That didn't happen. I think I was a little high but centered. During the day we tried to have me zero on Saturday, but conditions didn't allow me to have a good small aiming point, so not sure I got a solid zero, though probably improved what I started with - might have been a little low. So this is simple lesson, do whatever it takes to finish zeroing in plenty of time before departing on hunt. Stay up all night if needed. I stacked off in this area. Sounds really dumb to say it.
==
11 - Situational Awareness and team coordination
I don't think this affected accuracy, but it an important learning regardless. We needed to synch up for a few minutes before we went out in terms of protocol. Since TML had a brass bag on his right side, it made sense for me to stand on his right. Then his brass wouldn't hit me and my brass wouldn't hit him. While we were in column when moving, once TLM deployed his stick, I needed to immediately move to his right elbow and I did not, I stood waiting for instructions. In hind sight it seems simple to note that I should've just moved to the correct spot. I did not want to scan to my left as that would be moving my barrel towards TLM. I did scan to my right. There was usually at least one hog in "front" of us, which TLM desigated by how he set up. But what was to the left or right? I scanned right 90 degrees and back to the front and I believe he did same to the left, but one time I was not aware of more hogs farther away to the left. Had I been right on his elbow, he could have nudged and pointed, but I was too far away at that point. Not until after we shot the first hog, was I aware he was scanning to the left and whispering about more hogs over there. In the event these hogs got away, primarily because I was fumbling the coordination.
I've shot at night 100 or more times over the past two years but only once with another person and we fired singly not as a group/team. I would love to have someone to shoot with at night, but no one near me seems to be interested. I will have to mentally prepare by reciting the procedure in my head when I set up and shoot. Something like ... "Identify primary target" ... "move single file" ... "Set up" ... check primary target ... quickly scan the sides for other targets ... check team ready to fire ... count-down ... fire ... quickly scan the sides and begin wait ... if new targets appear, redploy setup as needed to present "front" to new targets" ... check team ready to fire ... count-down ... fire ... quickly scan for more targets. Repeat until no targets or until wait period over ... go check results at targets down.
All that makes complete sense ... in the event I was waiting too much for instructions instead of moving to the correct spot instantly.
==
21 - Ammo
I think shot placement is probably more important than having the best bullet, but having the best bullet is not a bad thing. I tried using 168gr AMAX and now realize I should have tried 165gr SST. I have ordered some harnady loaded 165gr SST. I will run this piston gun on "suppressed" mode once I get the harvester and might even try running on suppressed mode (there are 4 settings on the gas block) with the 165gr SST ammo. One user said he twice broken his firing pin retaining pin shooting 165gr hornady factory loads. And this user said the reason was due to over-pressurization as the hornady load is a bolt gun load. Until I get my reloading going, I will have to live with the factory loads.
In the event, I don't think my ammo made any difference in the results, but it could have had things been different. And there is no reason not to carry the best ammo for the task.
==
I will continue to rack my brain for learnings, but this is the first group.
==
Any thoughts welcome.
==
TEXASLAWMAN
Lone Star Boars Owner
LSB TURKEY BUZZARD PRESERVATION SOCIETY
SUS VENATOR CLUB
LoneStarBoars Supporter
Count down is not easy especially with hogs, they never stop moving. In fact countdowns are way harder! Also as you stated in a countdown the "zero bang" moment is often not prime, this is exactly right, if you were alone you shoot when the target is optimal. So countdowns are very much harder than shooting alone. The reason I wanted you to count down is its typically easier for the person counting down. This is because you choose when to start the countdown at the optimal time for your target. The second shooter uses the countdown as a base line but generally fires at the sound of the first rifle report so is at a disadvantage.
It is cramped back there most of the time we put the shortest guy back there of course Delta never scooted his seat forward for you. Yes you have to be ready we actually had all the time in the world it seemed to me with those hogs sometimes you have to shoot much quicker.
Yes you should always zero, it does not help that you are using your scope for dual functions. Even though the quick release mount are return to zero and you have the rails mounted you will still have up to a 2" poi shift. So every time you take it off you lose zero now at less than 100 yards and really out to 200 yards this will not matter for hogs they are big targets. When we did sight in you got it very close to zero since we were using a 5 gallon bucket with no real center aim point you were only about 1 inch left of center. I would have left it there and not touched it again but you made more adjustments and went farther off. I think if we would have used a smaller target you would have done better. Aim small hit small.
I think this affects accuracy a lot. Anytime I am hunting with someone else I pay more attention to them than the target. I want to know where they are at all times, and what they are doing.
When we are stalking up to the hogs in a single file and I stop to deploy my sticks that is your cue to move up next to me and get ready for the countdown. I thought you were aware of this that is my fault for not explaining it well. Also any time you line up to fire you must set up even with me the end of our muzzles should be side by side not one behind the other.
For scanning left to right after the first targets are hit you are correct the left shooter will scan center to left and the right shooter will scan center to right. I was not engaging more of them because I am trying to increase the population on this property so I can take more people hunting.
I have used the siera 168gr game kings with great success before I found the SST's. I find the factory loads breaking anything in a modern rifle hard to believe as most reloaders load way hotter than the factory.
wigwamitus
LSB Active Member
2015-01-18
2100-2230
30F
0-5 MPH
Goals: Observation Walk
Environment: Clear, stars visible, no moon. Orion high in the sky, Cass moving off to the West. Andromneda visible. A little wind increasing.
Equipment: Thermal with DVR, PVS-14 on helmet, canteen. I did not wear balaklava, toward the end of the session I wished I had.
Activity: I thought I would walk up to the Signal Hill area, then around the East edge of our property, across the creek and then work my way back along the North side of the creek. I wasn't 50yds from the house when I saw deer in the alfalfa patch and while I was viewing them, so Coyotes started sounding off to the SE, so I got some video of them. I thought I counted six, but in the DVR, I think I can only see four.
Here are the deer in the alfalfa patch. They are about 400yds away. The far side of this patch is 500yds.
[media]
Here are the coyotes, they are about 170yds away.
[media]
Then I finally got to walk up Signal Hill and saw three deer to the North along a tree line. They are about 250yds away. This is on 2x digital, just testing.
[media]
Then a long time passes as I move along the East edge of our property, drink some water, cross the creek. While crossing the creek I made a lot of noise as the ice was cracking under my feet with every step. I kept moving and did not fall through. As I reached the north side of the alfalfa patch I saw three deer in the adjacent pasture at about 300yds. They alered to something to their NW and then moved towards the alfalfa patch. Two of them entered the alfalfa patch and approached to within 100yds. This was a cross wind situation, they were moving downwind.
[media]
The third deer moved into our apple orchard. I spooked it as I was moving down the road and then it moved to recross the fence and head back to the pasture it came from.
[media]
2100-2230
30F
0-5 MPH
Goals: Observation Walk
Environment: Clear, stars visible, no moon. Orion high in the sky, Cass moving off to the West. Andromneda visible. A little wind increasing.
Equipment: Thermal with DVR, PVS-14 on helmet, canteen. I did not wear balaklava, toward the end of the session I wished I had.
Activity: I thought I would walk up to the Signal Hill area, then around the East edge of our property, across the creek and then work my way back along the North side of the creek. I wasn't 50yds from the house when I saw deer in the alfalfa patch and while I was viewing them, so Coyotes started sounding off to the SE, so I got some video of them. I thought I counted six, but in the DVR, I think I can only see four.
Here are the deer in the alfalfa patch. They are about 400yds away. The far side of this patch is 500yds.
[media]
Here are the coyotes, they are about 170yds away.
[media]
Then I finally got to walk up Signal Hill and saw three deer to the North along a tree line. They are about 250yds away. This is on 2x digital, just testing.
[media]
Then a long time passes as I move along the East edge of our property, drink some water, cross the creek. While crossing the creek I made a lot of noise as the ice was cracking under my feet with every step. I kept moving and did not fall through. As I reached the north side of the alfalfa patch I saw three deer in the adjacent pasture at about 300yds. They alered to something to their NW and then moved towards the alfalfa patch. Two of them entered the alfalfa patch and approached to within 100yds. This was a cross wind situation, they were moving downwind.
[media]
The third deer moved into our apple orchard. I spooked it as I was moving down the road and then it moved to recross the fence and head back to the pasture it came from.
[media]
wigwamitus
LSB Active Member
2015-01-19
2130-2330
30F
W 5-15 MPH
Goals: Observation Walk
Environment: Clear, stars visible, no moon. Breeze from the West.
Equipment: Thermal with DVR, PVS-14 on helmet, canteen.
Activity: I went South into the high rough pasture. I can see at least 800yds in most directions most of the time, though ridges block view in directions where they exist. But if you cross the ridge, then you can see in new directions and not in the old. This is where I saw and heard the coyotes last night and this is where we've been hearing them for past several weeks mostly. This is open ground, no trees, but rough ground and lots of small gullies feeding larger gullies that become feeder creeks to the main creek father down. Finding spots to cross the gullies was challenging. Staying in a erect posture was challenging! I drank lots of water, it was thirsty work. But it was also boring work. I did not see any creatures until I neared the end of my walk. Then I saw some deer and rabbit. I had been using the DVR batteries to extend the thermal, I had it on the whole time and I was still using the batteries in the thermal from previous night. So as soon as I powered up the DVR, it shut down and tried to start up again and shut down again, etc. The DVR batteries were done. So no DVR. I will need to change the batteries and take extras. How many times does it take before I learn this!
All that up and down the gullies work was more tired than the previous night and I had to stretch out afterwards to avoid soreness, but none this morning.
2130-2330
30F
W 5-15 MPH
Goals: Observation Walk
Environment: Clear, stars visible, no moon. Breeze from the West.
Equipment: Thermal with DVR, PVS-14 on helmet, canteen.
Activity: I went South into the high rough pasture. I can see at least 800yds in most directions most of the time, though ridges block view in directions where they exist. But if you cross the ridge, then you can see in new directions and not in the old. This is where I saw and heard the coyotes last night and this is where we've been hearing them for past several weeks mostly. This is open ground, no trees, but rough ground and lots of small gullies feeding larger gullies that become feeder creeks to the main creek father down. Finding spots to cross the gullies was challenging. Staying in a erect posture was challenging! I drank lots of water, it was thirsty work. But it was also boring work. I did not see any creatures until I neared the end of my walk. Then I saw some deer and rabbit. I had been using the DVR batteries to extend the thermal, I had it on the whole time and I was still using the batteries in the thermal from previous night. So as soon as I powered up the DVR, it shut down and tried to start up again and shut down again, etc. The DVR batteries were done. So no DVR. I will need to change the batteries and take extras. How many times does it take before I learn this!
All that up and down the gullies work was more tired than the previous night and I had to stretch out afterwards to avoid soreness, but none this morning.
wigwamitus
LSB Active Member
2015-01-25
2000-2200
30F
15 MPH NW
Goal: Observation Walk
Environment: Overcast, no moon or stars visible, breeze from NW, down some in intensity from earlier in the day where we hit the high 20s on MPH.
Equipment: Apollo with DVR as a handheld monocular. I improvised an "around the neck" lanyard for the Apollo, so I can release it while moving without having to put it in a pouch. I brought 2 sets of extra batteries in small zippered pockets on the chest of my outer layer. These little pockets are useful for this purpose. I know right where the batteries are and can get to them quickly and easily. PVS-14 on helmet, canteen.
Activity: Went South into the high ground again. Moved across upper Turkey Creek (gully) in a different spot. This gully is large and has amazingly steep sides given how short it is (about a half a mile) ... but there are no trees up here and I guess there are not enough roots to hold the ground. As before, I paused just before the crest of the main N/S ridge for a water break and took this image of a 360.
Note I am using a new pallet (for me). This is the "custom(OEM)" pallet. I'd always wondered what Armasight was thinking when they created this pallet, but I have an idea this might be a nice "low intensity" pallet. On a 2 hour plus walk, using the thermal a lot of the time, I have been getting "headaches" and my theory is that these headaches are caused by the intensity of the light from the white hot (WH) pallet I normally use for scanning. So I wanted to try this almost opposite "dark" pallet. It is a "red hot on black cold" kind of pallet. I believe creatures that are alive will show up. And the WH pallet is right next to this custom pallet so I can switch to the WH pallet with one click if I do spot something alive/moving. Tonight, I did not.
Here is an image of something (probably a boulder) that at first looked like it might be alive.
Here is another.
While I was out, the batteries in the DVR did die and I did change them quickly with no "flub" and this was the first time I had changed the DVR batteries in the field. I've changed the main thermal batteries several times and that is pretty easy, the DVR changing is a little tougher due to difficulty is pressing the batteries into tight compartment correctly. But I did it once in the field with no issues ... more to come.
As I was returning, the wind died down to zero and the clouds cleared and I could see Orion, Cass and Andromeda. But this clearing condition did not last long, it was cloudy when I took one of the dogs out later.
Results:
The red light coming out of the eye piece didn't give me headaches last night, nor did it mess up my NV in my unaided eye and I think the red light will be harder for creatures to see it bouncing off of me. So I will be trying this pallet some more.
It seems like the higher pasture is not fertile ground for spotting creatures, so I will revert to the lower pastures for next outings.
2000-2200
30F
15 MPH NW
Goal: Observation Walk
Environment: Overcast, no moon or stars visible, breeze from NW, down some in intensity from earlier in the day where we hit the high 20s on MPH.
Equipment: Apollo with DVR as a handheld monocular. I improvised an "around the neck" lanyard for the Apollo, so I can release it while moving without having to put it in a pouch. I brought 2 sets of extra batteries in small zippered pockets on the chest of my outer layer. These little pockets are useful for this purpose. I know right where the batteries are and can get to them quickly and easily. PVS-14 on helmet, canteen.
Activity: Went South into the high ground again. Moved across upper Turkey Creek (gully) in a different spot. This gully is large and has amazingly steep sides given how short it is (about a half a mile) ... but there are no trees up here and I guess there are not enough roots to hold the ground. As before, I paused just before the crest of the main N/S ridge for a water break and took this image of a 360.
Note I am using a new pallet (for me). This is the "custom(OEM)" pallet. I'd always wondered what Armasight was thinking when they created this pallet, but I have an idea this might be a nice "low intensity" pallet. On a 2 hour plus walk, using the thermal a lot of the time, I have been getting "headaches" and my theory is that these headaches are caused by the intensity of the light from the white hot (WH) pallet I normally use for scanning. So I wanted to try this almost opposite "dark" pallet. It is a "red hot on black cold" kind of pallet. I believe creatures that are alive will show up. And the WH pallet is right next to this custom pallet so I can switch to the WH pallet with one click if I do spot something alive/moving. Tonight, I did not.
Here is an image of something (probably a boulder) that at first looked like it might be alive.
Here is another.
While I was out, the batteries in the DVR did die and I did change them quickly with no "flub" and this was the first time I had changed the DVR batteries in the field. I've changed the main thermal batteries several times and that is pretty easy, the DVR changing is a little tougher due to difficulty is pressing the batteries into tight compartment correctly. But I did it once in the field with no issues ... more to come.
As I was returning, the wind died down to zero and the clouds cleared and I could see Orion, Cass and Andromeda. But this clearing condition did not last long, it was cloudy when I took one of the dogs out later.
Results:
The red light coming out of the eye piece didn't give me headaches last night, nor did it mess up my NV in my unaided eye and I think the red light will be harder for creatures to see it bouncing off of me. So I will be trying this pallet some more.
It seems like the higher pasture is not fertile ground for spotting creatures, so I will revert to the lower pastures for next outings.
wigwamitus
LSB Active Member
2015-01-26
2030-2230
40F
5 MPH WNW
Goal: Observation Walk
Environment: Clear moon and stars visible. Moon at 50% size/shape. Breeze from WNW. Breeze dropped to nil about half way through the walk.
Equipment: Apollo with DVR as a handheld monocular. PVS-14 on helmet, canteen. I only wore 2 layers (tee shirt and light jacket) as it was warm tonight and so did not have spare batteries. I needed them.
Activity: Went East into the central valley. Moved across lower Turkey Creek (gulley) and over Signal Hill spotting nothing. When I reached the pond I saw about 2 dozen ducks/geese in the pond and one walking on the bank. Before I turned on the DVR some of the ones in the pond were moving, but once the DVR was on, the avians stopped moving, though you can see something on the bank moving. Not sure what it is, but it seems to have a hot tail sticking up in the air. I guess they were posing for the camera.
EDIT 2016-01-30 ... BTW ... now I know that a "hot tail sticking up in the air" is most likely a skunk ... didn't smell skunk that night ... but of all the critters I might run into that can't shoot back, the skunks are the ones I am most careful of ... END EDIT
After a while, I continued moving. At about the thirtieth step, they took to flight. They made "honking" sounds as they were flying away to the South. Here I was upwind and up light ... so bad position. But they let me approach them and stand there within 50yds of them for several minutes. Only when I began moving away did they fly off.
No spotting events as I continued East to the jungle and then North across the creek. No ice this time it has almost all melted, but some splashing (that's what the mud boots are for).
As I moved West between one brome field towards the alfalfa field I saw the neighbors horses, in their usual spot.
As I entered the alfalfa field from the East, I saw a group of deer. Unfortunately one of the deer was fairly close, within 100yds and that prevented me from getting close to the others. As I traversed the alfalfa patch, the deer slowly moved away to the apple orchard to the South.
In this case I was down wind and in low light (deer between moon and me), with respect to the deer and that's why I took the path I took, to be in position of advantage on both counts when I reached the alfalfa patch, but by this point the wind had died and they could hear me moving unless I moved very slowly.
Just as I was exiting the alfalfa field the batteries in the DVR died, then in less than 1 minute the batteries in the thermal died and 2 minutes later the battery in the 14 died. With all the moon light, I was able to complete my journey just fine unaided. The two AA battery pouches on the side of my helmet were empty. I had spare AA in the big pouch on the back of the helmet but I decided not to break into there. If I wear wet suit outer layer, I have two small zippered pockets on the chest that are perfect for batteries, but if I don't wear that outer layer, I need another spot to hold batteries. I've had them fall out of cargo pockets. I need a 2 small pouches I can put in my pockets. Will have to hunt around.
Result: The big lesson for tonight was "batteries, batteries, batteries"
2030-2230
40F
5 MPH WNW
Goal: Observation Walk
Environment: Clear moon and stars visible. Moon at 50% size/shape. Breeze from WNW. Breeze dropped to nil about half way through the walk.
Equipment: Apollo with DVR as a handheld monocular. PVS-14 on helmet, canteen. I only wore 2 layers (tee shirt and light jacket) as it was warm tonight and so did not have spare batteries. I needed them.
Activity: Went East into the central valley. Moved across lower Turkey Creek (gulley) and over Signal Hill spotting nothing. When I reached the pond I saw about 2 dozen ducks/geese in the pond and one walking on the bank. Before I turned on the DVR some of the ones in the pond were moving, but once the DVR was on, the avians stopped moving, though you can see something on the bank moving. Not sure what it is, but it seems to have a hot tail sticking up in the air. I guess they were posing for the camera.
EDIT 2016-01-30 ... BTW ... now I know that a "hot tail sticking up in the air" is most likely a skunk ... didn't smell skunk that night ... but of all the critters I might run into that can't shoot back, the skunks are the ones I am most careful of
... END EDITAfter a while, I continued moving. At about the thirtieth step, they took to flight. They made "honking" sounds as they were flying away to the South. Here I was upwind and up light ... so bad position. But they let me approach them and stand there within 50yds of them for several minutes. Only when I began moving away did they fly off.
No spotting events as I continued East to the jungle and then North across the creek. No ice this time it has almost all melted, but some splashing (that's what the mud boots are for).
As I moved West between one brome field towards the alfalfa field I saw the neighbors horses, in their usual spot.
As I entered the alfalfa field from the East, I saw a group of deer. Unfortunately one of the deer was fairly close, within 100yds and that prevented me from getting close to the others. As I traversed the alfalfa patch, the deer slowly moved away to the apple orchard to the South.
In this case I was down wind and in low light (deer between moon and me), with respect to the deer and that's why I took the path I took, to be in position of advantage on both counts when I reached the alfalfa patch, but by this point the wind had died and they could hear me moving unless I moved very slowly.
Just as I was exiting the alfalfa field the batteries in the DVR died, then in less than 1 minute the batteries in the thermal died and 2 minutes later the battery in the 14 died. With all the moon light, I was able to complete my journey just fine unaided. The two AA battery pouches on the side of my helmet were empty. I had spare AA in the big pouch on the back of the helmet but I decided not to break into there. If I wear wet suit outer layer, I have two small zippered pockets on the chest that are perfect for batteries, but if I don't wear that outer layer, I need another spot to hold batteries. I've had them fall out of cargo pockets. I need a 2 small pouches I can put in my pockets. Will have to hunt around.
Result: The big lesson for tonight was "batteries, batteries, batteries"
Last edited:
wigwamitus
LSB Active Member
2015-01-30
0510-0525
10F
0 MPH NW
Activity: Coyotes woke me up out side bedroom window, so grabbed thermal and went out and they were in the usual place, probably just having got a rabbit. I hollered back and one of them yawned and later laid down on one of the bales for a nap. I get no respect. This was about 70yds from me to them.
0510-0525
10F
0 MPH NW
Activity: Coyotes woke me up out side bedroom window, so grabbed thermal and went out and they were in the usual place, probably just having got a rabbit. I hollered back and one of them yawned and later laid down on one of the bales for a nap. I get no respect
. This was about 70yds from me to them.
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Puppies playing on the hay bales, that is funny stuff!! Cool video, thanks for posting. BANG BANG!!
. BANG BANG!!
wigwamitus
LSB Active Member
2015-01-30
2030-2230
30F
5 MPH NW
Goal: Zero .308WIN bolt gun with 125gr SST.
Environment: Thick overcast, no moon, stars, very little ambient light from nearby section lights, light rain, some of which was probably frozen, as there was more noise from this "rain" upon hitting clothing and helmet.
Equipment: Helmet with dual PVS-14s ... second 14 finally back from 2nd level depot, after getting some work done. Had problem with loose focus ring. Need to reverse the left/right sequence of the 14s as the one on left side has the weapon mount ring and so couldn't move the two 14s all the way together. That was only issue with the dual setup. It was great having two again when driving the buggy to/from the field, much better visibility.
Also had .308WIN bolt gun. Both my other two .30 cal rifles are setup for long range right now and both .20 cal rifles are still enroute back from shop getting new muzzle devices for suppressor, so only "spare" rifle is .308WIN. Used L&S 6.5-20x TMR ffp scope and harris 9-12 bipod. LRF and 3x magnifier in belt pouches. .45 acp in holster. Also had PS-22 in front of the scope.
Activity: Stopped on top of signal hill and did a 360. Saw 8 deer to the north. Got some video with the thermal/dvr. Also put 3x magnifier on left side 14 and could clearly see two closest deer. I ranged the deer and they were about 300yds away with the farther ones being up to 400yds away.
Then drove buggy down to pond and got to within 150yds of the closest deer and took this video. Eventually I made enough noise that the deer withdrew into the woods along the creek.
Then proceeded to target area and set up target. Fired four 1 round groups of German blue plastic DM18A1B1 training ammo. 4000fps with a 10gr "bullet". Shots at 30yds were standing unsupported, shots at 60yds were prone.
G01 - 30yds 1 rd - 6 inches left, 0.5 inches high. Decided to repeat shot.
G02 - 30yds 1 rd - 3.5 inches low, 1.5 inches left. Decided I would be on paper at 60yds, so moved to 60yds.
G03 - 60yds 1 rd - 6 inches low, 1.5 inches left. Decided to hold up 4 mils.
G04 - 60yds 1 rd - 1.5 inches high, 0 inches left. I called this good and switched to SST ammo.
Second 4 groups were Hornady SST 125gr.
G11 - 60yds 1 rd - 7 inches low, 5 inches left. Cranked up 4 mils and right 1 mil.
G12 - 60yds 1 rd - 2 inches high, 2 inches left. Cranked down 1 mil.
G13 - 60yds 1 rd - 2 inches low, 2 inches left. Cranked up 0.5 mil and right .5 mil.
G14 - 60yds 1 rd - 1.75 inches low, 1 inch right.
The scope had come loose in the mount, I must have forgotten to tighten it down all the way?? AFter RTB I took to work table and realized I did not have a torque hex head that would fit these mounting screws. So I retightened using the provided hex wrench. If it comes loose again I will have to wait until I can get a head for these screws, which I guess I need to get anyway. I have a couple of gaps in my torque wrench heads and this is one of them.
I will resume checking the zero now that the scope is tightened down as far as I can get it with the manual wrench.
I haven't figured out how to shoot comfortably from prone with the helmet and 14s on, if anyone can do this I'd love to know the trick! So I took it off and laid it in the buggy bed. After shooting I headed to target but forgot I didn't have on helmet. I was still able to see to navigate and using eyes and hands was able to locate bullet holes. This even though tonight was among the darker nights. Both PVS-14s and PS-22 performed fine in these conditions.
While returning to house, I saw the 8 deer on Turkey bluff, about a quarter of a mile West of where they had been on the way out.
2030-2230
30F
5 MPH NW
Goal: Zero .308WIN bolt gun with 125gr SST.
Environment: Thick overcast, no moon, stars, very little ambient light from nearby section lights, light rain, some of which was probably frozen, as there was more noise from this "rain" upon hitting clothing and helmet.
Equipment: Helmet with dual PVS-14s ... second 14 finally back from 2nd level depot, after getting some work done. Had problem with loose focus ring. Need to reverse the left/right sequence of the 14s as the one on left side has the weapon mount ring and so couldn't move the two 14s all the way together. That was only issue with the dual setup. It was great having two again when driving the buggy to/from the field, much better visibility.
Also had .308WIN bolt gun. Both my other two .30 cal rifles are setup for long range right now and both .20 cal rifles are still enroute back from shop getting new muzzle devices for suppressor, so only "spare" rifle is .308WIN. Used L&S 6.5-20x TMR ffp scope and harris 9-12 bipod. LRF and 3x magnifier in belt pouches. .45 acp in holster. Also had PS-22 in front of the scope.
Activity: Stopped on top of signal hill and did a 360. Saw 8 deer to the north. Got some video with the thermal/dvr. Also put 3x magnifier on left side 14 and could clearly see two closest deer. I ranged the deer and they were about 300yds away with the farther ones being up to 400yds away.
Then drove buggy down to pond and got to within 150yds of the closest deer and took this video. Eventually I made enough noise that the deer withdrew into the woods along the creek.
Then proceeded to target area and set up target. Fired four 1 round groups of German blue plastic DM18A1B1 training ammo. 4000fps with a 10gr "bullet". Shots at 30yds were standing unsupported, shots at 60yds were prone.
G01 - 30yds 1 rd - 6 inches left, 0.5 inches high. Decided to repeat shot.
G02 - 30yds 1 rd - 3.5 inches low, 1.5 inches left. Decided I would be on paper at 60yds, so moved to 60yds.
G03 - 60yds 1 rd - 6 inches low, 1.5 inches left. Decided to hold up 4 mils.
G04 - 60yds 1 rd - 1.5 inches high, 0 inches left. I called this good and switched to SST ammo.
Second 4 groups were Hornady SST 125gr.
G11 - 60yds 1 rd - 7 inches low, 5 inches left. Cranked up 4 mils and right 1 mil.
G12 - 60yds 1 rd - 2 inches high, 2 inches left. Cranked down 1 mil.
G13 - 60yds 1 rd - 2 inches low, 2 inches left. Cranked up 0.5 mil and right .5 mil.
G14 - 60yds 1 rd - 1.75 inches low, 1 inch right.
The scope had come loose in the mount, I must have forgotten to tighten it down all the way?? AFter RTB I took to work table and realized I did not have a torque hex head that would fit these mounting screws. So I retightened using the provided hex wrench. If it comes loose again I will have to wait until I can get a head for these screws, which I guess I need to get anyway. I have a couple of gaps in my torque wrench heads and this is one of them.
I will resume checking the zero now that the scope is tightened down as far as I can get it with the manual wrench.
I haven't figured out how to shoot comfortably from prone with the helmet and 14s on, if anyone can do this I'd love to know the trick! So I took it off and laid it in the buggy bed. After shooting I headed to target but forgot I didn't have on helmet. I was still able to see to navigate and using eyes and hands was able to locate bullet holes. This even though tonight was among the darker nights. Both PVS-14s and PS-22 performed fine in these conditions.
While returning to house, I saw the 8 deer on Turkey bluff, about a quarter of a mile West of where they had been on the way out.
Last edited:
wigwamitus
LSB Active Member
2015-01-30
1130-1230
30F
5 mph SW
Goal: Confirm DOPE card for 7.62 with XM80 at 600yds.
Environment: Wind low, wind turbine not moving, but reading average of 4.2, spiking up to 8 mph in the higher pasture.
Equipment: 7.62 with harris 6-9 bipod, L&S 3-18x H58 ffp scope, LRF, XM80 ammo.
Activity: Setup target and proceeding to walk up the draw to the high ground. Lased myself into 600yd firing point. Kneeing down I banged a rock hard. That's why you are supposed to wear your knee pads up here dummy. Not easy to reverse damage can be had doing stupid things. Fortunately the knee recovered and I realized I would be able to find this rock again and so hence in the middle of this completely non-descript rough pasture, I had found a "known" 600yd FP. I used it for the afternoon session.
There is a layer of weeds in this pasture from 12-18 inches high. When lying prone it is impossible to see the target. Even on low magnification I can just barely make out a fuzzy shape. But for some reason, if I crank up the magnification I can see the target better. Somehow the weeds disappear a bit at higher magnification. This is an image through the L&S 8.5-25x (at 25x) scope on the .338LM at the 600yd target,
but it shows about the same as what I see through the 3-18x scope on 18x. Those two white circles are "glare".
I have been going back and forth between 100, 200, 300, 400 and 500 yds with the 7.62 and XM80 for the past week and a half trying to validate the DOPE card. I tried 600yds with two rounds once 2 days ago but was high and right off the paper, barely able to see dirt splash, so I clicked down to 8.6 (from 8.7 and held 0.5 mils for wind.
G01 - 600yds - 2rds - high and right on the paper. Clicked down to 8.4 mils and held 1 mil left.
G02 - 600yds - 2rds - elevation not bad, 3 inches low, but rounds are 11 inches a part. I about about 150 feet above the target (50yds) when at this 600yds FP and a little wind up here makes a big difference. I measured 4.2 avg for two mins before the second group and that should be 1 mil, but usually I would discount that as about 1.3 of the bullet path is shielded by trees. On the other hand, I am high enough up, that some or much of that tree shielding which matters at 400-500yds, may not matter as much up here. Certainly the bullet path flies over the nearest group of trees to the left of the bullet path. The actual cross hair was algined with the bullet holes marked by the two green dots of G02, but was all the way at the left edge of the pic, as I saw it through the scope. So there was probably a significant variation in wind between the two shots, that I could not detect from the FP. I tried again after clicking up to 8.5 mils and held 1.0 left again.
G03 - 600yds - 2 rds - one round on paper, the other hit the rebar to the upper left of the target board, this cause a spray of metal shards to impact the target as you can see.
As to my firing position, I am using a rear bag. I am trying to set the tripod at a height that minimizes the use of the rear bag. In otherwords, I don't really want the rear bag to have to do much in terms of elevation. I hope this strategy minimizes the amount of "barrel up" I might get if I am elevating the barrel with a lot of squeeze on the rear bag. I am gripping the pistol grip and pull it towards me. This seems to significantly help in minimizing "out of battery" events I attribute to the action loading the next round. This helps me see the splash and stay on target. It still moves a bit, but I am trying to learn the balance between a little bit of shift and NPA.
I haven't fired the 7.62 at 600yds since about a year ago and in those days I was just starting to learn to use a scope. I was learning what the hash marks were and about mils and moa and ballistics charts and MV, etc. I would "hurl lead" from 600yds on occasion and consider it lucky (it was) if I hit the paper. This year it a different ball game. I'm still learning a dozen new things every timne I go out, but I feel like things are much more predictable this year.
Due to work, I had to cut short this session and RTB to return later in the afternoon.
1430-1600
40F
2 mph SSW
Goals, Environment and Equipment as above.
Activity: Back to 600yds, to the "rock". Wind much lower, at the FP. But not necessarily elsewhere along the bullet path.
I tried 8.5 and holding 0.4 MIL for wind. I measured 1.8 2m avg for wind at the FP.
G11 - 600yds - 2 rds - high and right, one round on paper, one not. Well not enough windage and this is where I started realizing the cross hairs were not level. I went back to 8.4 and held 0.8 for wind.
G12 - 600yds - 2 rds - finally something that looks like a group. A four inch spread but still 6-9 inches from the bull (only a hint of which is sometimes visible from 600yds - most shots are aimed at "center of mass"). I repeated the elevation but held 0.6 for wind.
G13 - 600yds - 2 rds - another group looking thing, though I can only thank the consistency of the wind for that. These last two bullet holes are marked. They are 4 inches apart and are 4 and 8 inches from the center of the bull.
Results: One thing I realized today was the importance of having the horizontal cross hair level with respect to gravity. I have taken the "training wheels" (scope levels) off! I think this has cause some of the variation in elevation I've seen on occasion. At 600yds with this ammo and rifle, wind matters. And if you are holding a mil or so for wind and the cross hair isn't level that can throw off the elevation.
The AB/BC says 8.5 mils is correect but 8.4 seems to be working better, though on level ground 8.5 is probably correct, I just am not on level ground.
I do not have the "feel" for shooting 7.62 at 600yds, like I do the .22LR at 300yds, but I'll continue to work on validing this DOPE card for the 7.62 with the XM80 ammo over the next 6 weeks. On March 28th I'm going with a group to a ranch farther West where we can go to 1,400. I'm not sure I can make 1,400 with this setup. Getting to 1,000yds should be possible, but both 1,200 and 1,400 will require significant holds. Fortunately, this scope and reticle can do the job, in theory.
Here is the DOPE card as it looks now. Nothing over 600yds is validated, I can only get out to 600yds on my land.
1130-1230
30F
5 mph SW
Goal: Confirm DOPE card for 7.62 with XM80 at 600yds.
Environment: Wind low, wind turbine not moving, but reading average of 4.2, spiking up to 8 mph in the higher pasture.
Equipment: 7.62 with harris 6-9 bipod, L&S 3-18x H58 ffp scope, LRF, XM80 ammo.
Activity: Setup target and proceeding to walk up the draw to the high ground. Lased myself into 600yd firing point. Kneeing down I banged a rock hard. That's why you are supposed to wear your knee pads up here dummy. Not easy to reverse damage can be had doing stupid things. Fortunately the knee recovered and I realized I would be able to find this rock again and so hence in the middle of this completely non-descript rough pasture, I had found a "known" 600yd FP. I used it for the afternoon session.
There is a layer of weeds in this pasture from 12-18 inches high. When lying prone it is impossible to see the target. Even on low magnification I can just barely make out a fuzzy shape. But for some reason, if I crank up the magnification I can see the target better. Somehow the weeds disappear a bit at higher magnification. This is an image through the L&S 8.5-25x (at 25x) scope on the .338LM at the 600yd target,
but it shows about the same as what I see through the 3-18x scope on 18x. Those two white circles are "glare".
I have been going back and forth between 100, 200, 300, 400 and 500 yds with the 7.62 and XM80 for the past week and a half trying to validate the DOPE card. I tried 600yds with two rounds once 2 days ago but was high and right off the paper, barely able to see dirt splash, so I clicked down to 8.6 (from 8.7 and held 0.5 mils for wind.
G01 - 600yds - 2rds - high and right on the paper. Clicked down to 8.4 mils and held 1 mil left.
G02 - 600yds - 2rds - elevation not bad, 3 inches low, but rounds are 11 inches a part. I about about 150 feet above the target (50yds) when at this 600yds FP and a little wind up here makes a big difference. I measured 4.2 avg for two mins before the second group and that should be 1 mil, but usually I would discount that as about 1.3 of the bullet path is shielded by trees. On the other hand, I am high enough up, that some or much of that tree shielding which matters at 400-500yds, may not matter as much up here. Certainly the bullet path flies over the nearest group of trees to the left of the bullet path. The actual cross hair was algined with the bullet holes marked by the two green dots of G02, but was all the way at the left edge of the pic, as I saw it through the scope. So there was probably a significant variation in wind between the two shots, that I could not detect from the FP. I tried again after clicking up to 8.5 mils and held 1.0 left again.
G03 - 600yds - 2 rds - one round on paper, the other hit the rebar to the upper left of the target board, this cause a spray of metal shards to impact the target as you can see.
As to my firing position, I am using a rear bag. I am trying to set the tripod at a height that minimizes the use of the rear bag. In otherwords, I don't really want the rear bag to have to do much in terms of elevation. I hope this strategy minimizes the amount of "barrel up" I might get if I am elevating the barrel with a lot of squeeze on the rear bag. I am gripping the pistol grip and pull it towards me. This seems to significantly help in minimizing "out of battery" events I attribute to the action loading the next round. This helps me see the splash and stay on target. It still moves a bit, but I am trying to learn the balance between a little bit of shift and NPA.
I haven't fired the 7.62 at 600yds since about a year ago and in those days I was just starting to learn to use a scope. I was learning what the hash marks were and about mils and moa and ballistics charts and MV, etc. I would "hurl lead" from 600yds on occasion and consider it lucky (it was) if I hit the paper. This year it a different ball game. I'm still learning a dozen new things every timne I go out, but I feel like things are much more predictable this year.
Due to work, I had to cut short this session and RTB to return later in the afternoon.
1430-1600
40F
2 mph SSW
Goals, Environment and Equipment as above.
Activity: Back to 600yds, to the "rock". Wind much lower, at the FP. But not necessarily elsewhere along the bullet path.
I tried 8.5 and holding 0.4 MIL for wind. I measured 1.8 2m avg for wind at the FP.
G11 - 600yds - 2 rds - high and right, one round on paper, one not. Well not enough windage and this is where I started realizing the cross hairs were not level. I went back to 8.4 and held 0.8 for wind.
G12 - 600yds - 2 rds - finally something that looks like a group. A four inch spread but still 6-9 inches from the bull (only a hint of which is sometimes visible from 600yds - most shots are aimed at "center of mass"). I repeated the elevation but held 0.6 for wind.
G13 - 600yds - 2 rds - another group looking thing, though I can only thank the consistency of the wind for that. These last two bullet holes are marked. They are 4 inches apart and are 4 and 8 inches from the center of the bull.
Results: One thing I realized today was the importance of having the horizontal cross hair level with respect to gravity. I have taken the "training wheels" (scope levels) off! I think this has cause some of the variation in elevation I've seen on occasion. At 600yds with this ammo and rifle, wind matters. And if you are holding a mil or so for wind and the cross hair isn't level that can throw off the elevation.
The AB/BC says 8.5 mils is correect but 8.4 seems to be working better, though on level ground 8.5 is probably correct, I just am not on level ground.
I do not have the "feel" for shooting 7.62 at 600yds, like I do the .22LR at 300yds, but I'll continue to work on validing this DOPE card for the 7.62 with the XM80 ammo over the next 6 weeks. On March 28th I'm going with a group to a ranch farther West where we can go to 1,400. I'm not sure I can make 1,400 with this setup. Getting to 1,000yds should be possible, but both 1,200 and 1,400 will require significant holds. Fortunately, this scope and reticle can do the job, in theory.
Here is the DOPE card as it looks now. Nothing over 600yds is validated, I can only get out to 600yds on my land.
Sounds and looks like you are getting plenty of practice. You will know the rifle inside and out. Now,,, this is one thing I noticed if I myself was trying for perfection I would do something about the gas block/front rail touching your hand guard. If is a floating barrel it is preferred not to have anything touching your hand guard, just to be more consistent in the flight of the projectile. Just my point of view and do not want to stir the pot just thought I would throw that out there. Bets of luck to ya and good shooting. BANG BANG!!
this is one thing I noticed if I myself was trying for perfection I would do something about the gas block/front rail touching your hand guard. If is a floating barrel it is preferred not to have anything touching your hand guard, just to be more consistent in the flight of the projectile. Just my point of view and do not want to stir the pot just thought I would throw that out there. Bets of luck to ya and good shooting. BANG BANG!!
wigwamitus
LSB Active Member
I checked just now, and I don't think the gas block is touching the hand guard. I was able to slip a piece of card board (the end of an ammo box) in between. In the above pic, things are fuzzy, and it looks like they are touching, but I estimate there is a 1/32 inch gap. The gas block does have its own little rail section on top of it, but I only use that for the front iron sight, which must be removed sometimes due to things like NV/thermal objectives not being able to clear the iron sight.
If I had it to do over again, I would not have gotten a carbine length, that has caused problems mounting NV/thermal. One day I will get a different 7.62 setup, but for now I do the best I can with what I have available.
If I had it to do over again, I would not have gotten a carbine length, that has caused problems mounting NV/thermal. One day I will get a different 7.62 setup, but for now I do the best I can with what I have available
.
If that is a rifle you are going to keep if it were mine I would change out the gas block and put a low pro gas block on there and put a 11 or 13 inch hand guard on there and you would be good to go. Just an FYI. Take care. BANG BANG!!
wigwamitus
LSB Active Member
If I had it to do over again, I would not have gotten a Sig, or a Savage, or a Ruger ... in the past year I've learned one very important lesson. If you want to keep your rifles up and running as much as possible, you need to learn how to fix as many problems as you can yourself. I've also replaced some parts. So, the business model of these manufacturers is that your warranty is voided if you do some of the work yourself. They are willing to do warranty repairs on their rifles, but that takes and lot of time and trouble. Like the ejector issue I had. It would have taken them 5 weeks to fix it, I was able to fix it in 3 days (most of which was waiting on new parts to arrive from Midway). The Sig is a good gun, maybe better (built to tighter tolerances?) than a DPMS MOD ONE but I can get interchangeable parts for a DPMS but can't get many Sig parts for the Sig.
==
I will look in to your suggestion. I've already got over 1,000 rounds through this rifle (the Sig 7.62) so I guess I'm going to keep it!!!
(though I might get a DPMS also one day ... and a Remington ... like I should have to begin with !!!)
==
I will look in to your suggestion. I've already got over 1,000 rounds through this rifle (the Sig 7.62) so I guess I'm going to keep it!!!
(though I might get a DPMS also one day ... and a Remington ... like I should have to begin with !!!)