THERMAL SCOPE SIDE BY SIDE COMPARISON.

[FrankT]

calibration button labeled "NUC" (or automatic on some)lets you quickly recalibrate the image for maximum performance. All modern thermal sensors will drift after a period of time or when exposed to different temperature scenes. Most thermal camera sensors have an integrated "shutter" device that periodically closes over the sensor for a split second to recalibrate the image. This is the click that you hear in most thermals.

 

[hdfireman]

What is NUC?

Yours is constantly refreshing Rob so you never need to NUC and the screen never freezes.

 

[rob072770]

Yours is constantly refreshing Rob so you never need to NUC and the screen never freezes.

That is good the KISS method

 

[DaveABQ]

We have had some questions about why this comparison was done in bad conditions so here is an answer. If you want to see great conditions you can take a look at advertising/dealer's video or pictures. Making them look great is what is done for marketing, this was done to show people the differences in features, magnification, lens size, etc.... Lets face it, we don't always have the best conditions. That is why we thought it would be best to show the guy that has saved all his lunch money for thermal how they fair in bad conditions. No matter how awesome a scope looks on a good night it is worthless if it's crap on bad night.

I like the fact it was done in high humidity and warm weather. Gives a good comparison for that type of weather.

I think many people think that thermal doesn't work in these conditions, which was shown it does and gets even better with better conditions. Which can be a separate thread.

These were good reviews, will give more feedback when I get home, on the way back from Phoenix

 

[hdfireman]

Hunt TXHogs I will answer a few of these.

1, 3 and 4) It was dark during the entire filming process and yes it was all in one night Before dark we placed markers at 50, 100, 200, 300, 400, 500 and 600 yards. Once it was dark we started driving the coarse, stopping at the each marker. TLM, Delta4-3 and myself wanted to keep the review as simple but yet equal as possible. That being said not all scopes had color palettes so everything was filmed in black and white hot. Not all scopes had digital zoom so it was not used. As you know digital zoom degrades resolution and we wanted to show all of them at their native setting.

5, 6, 7and 8) The sighting in process was not done due to time and ammo. You said it took you 40 rounds to sight one in, well we had 8 scopes. Then to remove them and check return to zero would take even more ammo. You see how it could be very time consuming and costly. We felt like more people struggle with the image quality, detection ability and range so that's what we focused on.

 

[hdfireman]

I like the fact it was done in high humidity and warm weather. Gives a good comparison for that type of weather.

I think many people think that thermal doesn't work in these conditions, which was shown it does and gets even better with better conditions. Which can be a separate thread.

These were good reviews, will give more feedback when I get home, on the way back from Phoenix

Agreed Sir

 

[DaveABQ]

Ben,
I can say how I adjusted my Zeus. I took one shot, windage was good, elevation was 10" low. I held the scope with crosshairs in bullseye, I went in to boresight menu, holding the scope still, I moved the elevation adjustment in the Zeus until the crosshairs were over the bullet hole. Saved the setting, second shot was center of bullseye. I use the same for all scopes. I usually first make sure it is somewhere on paper by shooting at 25 or 50 yards, then move out to my zero range, usually 100 yards. Most scopes I can do in two or three shots.

 

[Brian Shaffer]

I have some feedback, for this review and future reviews - please take this as constructive input as I have been in your shoes in terms of reviewing products and doing reviews for the masses, ...

LOL, you mean that the review and video doesn't look like your videos. However, you asked several questions and given that you have reviewed THOR and ZEUS scopes, you should already have these answers for these models, should you not? Do you have the long term results you asked about?

In my experience, you can always question why a review didn't cover more territory, in more depth, in a specific manner, etc. For example, none of the color palates were demo'd here. You do them in your videos, which is nice, but then don't follow through on providing an evaluation of which color palates are suited or suitable for various hunting or shooting situations. In other words, you did demo the color, but to what end? There are lots of thermal videos on Youtube where folks are using scopes that have color palates, but they apparently are not hunting with the bizarre colors.

Besides, folks like you have already demo'd things like the color palate, as a feature most people aren't using to hunt, is there really a reason to go through it again?

You asked about long term results? LOL. That would involve having scopes for the long term, would it not? Maybe that is a better question for long time owners.

9) Any chance of a group buy on any of these scopes

YES! You may buy the group any of these scopes. One per person would be reasonable, but two or three would be preferred.

 

[Shooter]

What TLM was able to accomplish by coordinating the amount of scopes for this review far exceeds the abilities of most people to do the same and also he was able to capture the interest of industry reps to be present at the review to ensure all systems were a "go" - well BRAVO Sir! Job well done! ;)


I agree. The guys that did the videos spent a lot of time doing them. Eric must have logged about 5/6 miles on that ATV and Arron and TLM spent a lot of time just getting everything to work well.

The three of us that did reviews all had our reasons and specifice things we were looking for in thermals. Mine was positive tgt acquisition and absolute positive ID before shooting.

As far as conditions, they were certainly not as bad as some nights here in Texas or for that matter Afghanistan!!

All in all and all the circumstances pretty well done and should give any reader some starting point to be thinking about before they venture onto the thermal world. I do wish that a couple of the vendors would have sent top of the line product instead of entry level, but that is the way it is.

 

[DaveABQ]

ok, back in Albuquerque, semi-rested lol, driving 900 miles in a day sucks.

Thanks to TLM for putting this together, and thanks to the guys for reviewing, not an easy task, good overall job and nothing like this has been done anywhere else, thanks to TLM and LSB, and its members.

I'm sure TLM caught this, the video list showed the Apollo as a 336 unit, but the recordings showed 640, which was correct, just a minor thing. Other thing was Jim said only the W1000 was 7.62/.308 rated, but actually they all are.

Also, it looked like some recordings were slightly out of focus, judging by black hot vs white hot, granted, to me, I like black hot, I was looking at surrounding features and didn't look like it had perfect focus in some video's. I would have liked to seen the person moving their arms in all video's, gives a better image for recognition.

One thing I like in reviews is pictures/photo's. There was the image in the beginning of the video showing all the units on the table, but I would have liked to seen more pictures, not for me, but for those considering these scopes. Also specifications like size, weight, etc is helpful to those considering one, the side by side photo is helpful for size, but doesn't give weight and other specs that may be important. That being said, I've pulled some photo's for comparison, would have liked to seen more side by side photo's:

All units tested:

Armasight Zeus

ATN Thor

Raytheon W1000-9

FLIR RS

 

[DaveABQ]

L3 LWTS

 

[Brian Shaffer]

I see the LWTS is shown without its shroud or eyepiece as well, LOL!

 

[TEXASLAWMAN]

Ok guys I'm not much for deleting peoples post as you all well know but this is a review that has been shared all over the net so I deleted the off topic post, bickering, and suggestions for how it could be done different. If you have questions for the reviewers about the units and features tested by all means post them up. Other than that keep the thread on topic. I will create a thread for future reviews where you can post ideas of what you would like to see. Thank you.

 

[Hard_ware]

Man the w1000-9 with the BST detector really out performs the rest as far as contrast between background and heat source.
Armasight Apollo very good clarity

For pics and specs check with the company that make the device.
Why waste time on something that has already been done.

The zero your whatever device you use, has been very very simple for me.
Put a small laser on the rifle and leave it there forever!
Now whatever you want to co-witness is simple.
1. Put laser dot on a target at same distance it was sighted in at when you set it up, use reflective tape for long range if necessary out to 1000yds.
2. Put new device on rifle and align the new device to the laser.
(for thermal device use a small heat pad and reflective tape 3/8 x3/8 in center to co-witness)

No bullets fired, I use this method and will hit an egg at 100yds with whatever is co witnessed with the laser.
Everytime I mount the franken thermal I check to make sure it is still co witnessed. I will mount and dismount it from the ar15 several times when hunting. Point at a dirt clod or the top of a fence post and hit the laser to make sure it's still co-witnessed, this method would work for testing if the device returns to zero each time. Plus the laser with an extra switch for low power mod (very very dim not useable without NV ,install a couple of diodes in line with a second pressure switch to reduce voltage) works very well with the pvs14 head mounted for quick shots and was under 40.00 for the laser.

 

[Vance Goodson]

I am super impressed with the optical clarity of the Armasight Apollo. I also like the fact that it can be used as a clip on or as a stand alone unit. In the video it may just be me, but it seems to have more definition than any of the other units. Very good review and I believe I know which way I'm going whenever I decide to go thermal.

 

[Shooter]

Vance

Next to the LWTS the Apollo is the best all around, and 2/3 the price of the LWTS. I have the LWTS so would not change now but if I had seen this three months ago things might have been different. Lets just say-maybe.

The Apollo is a great thermal unit, and is a clip on to boot.

 

[Ident Marking]

I was also impressed with the Apollo as far as a clip-on. The next night we hunted with it in front of an ACOG and it looked really good.

-hd

 

[DaveABQ]

Could you put the Apollo behind a day sight? Nice you can record from it, but can't see any crosshairs when in front for recording purposes.

 

[Brian Shaffer]

No. It won't work unless your day sight has germanium lenses. So no, no crosshairs unless you align your Apollo crosshairs with the day sight crosshairs and turn on the reticle in the Apollo before recording. It is possible that you might have a very busy sight picture, even though the recorded version would only show the Apollo reticle.

 

[Ident Marking]

Brian is correct on all points. This past weekend I did as he suggested by using the Apollo crosshairs. The unit has many different reticles so you can probably find one that matches you day optic. Still has a draw back of recording with the magnification of the unit and not the scopes.

-hd