POI problem w/ apollo pro 640 50mm in front of day scope
- Thread starter lazyeye
- Start date
TEXASLAWMAN
Lone Star Boars Owner
LSB TURKEY BUZZARD PRESERVATION SOCIETY
SUS VENATOR CLUB
LoneStarBoars Supporter
You know you can use it day or night right?
lazyeye
New Member
yes, i knew that, but w/ the weaver scope the tube diameter was too small for the light suppressor. even w/ a hose clamp or tape i couldn't get a clear view. so with the leupold i planned just to go with it in the dark, but now when i put the suppressor on i find it fits perfectly on the leupold and i can see fine. right now it's snowing, but if it clears later i'll give it a go. thanks
lazyeye
New Member
well, still no luck. zeroed both the leupold and again the weaver, put on the thermal and didn't hit paper at 25 yds with either. just now put on the thermal standalone and didn't hit paper at 25 yds. the factory reset button actually doesn't reset parameters to some default as it says on the screen, because after doing it any screen margin adjustments made aren't changed, and the reticle is the same and not centered until done manually by holding down 2 buttons. i'll try to get some guidance from armasight, i'm baffled at this point.
TEXASLAWMAN
Lone Star Boars Owner
LSB TURKEY BUZZARD PRESERVATION SOCIETY
SUS VENATOR CLUB
LoneStarBoars Supporter
Yea I don't know then it should be centered.
I would suggest setting the rifle on bags, in a lead sled or something similar, with the zero'd day scope's reticle centered on the target, and then, without moving the rifle, mounting the thermal. You will be able to see where the cross hairs of the day scope are moved to, and so the error generated by the thermal.
With an unloaded rifle, you could do it at home.
JPK
lazyeye
New Member
great suggestion, jpk. i just did that w/ a lead sled indoors at 25 yds. putting the thermal on shifted the poi down and right considerably off the target paper. moving the margins on the thermal i was able to center it approximately on a little baggie w/a little hot water in it. when i took the thermal off, the day scope was centered just at the bottom edge of the target paper and a few inches right (the increments on the thermal don't correspond exactly w/ 1/4 moa. i'll get a chance to try it hopefully later today, get on paper at 25 yds and adjust back out. i'm optimistic now! will report back. thanks again.
buol
buol
I had this same problem when I first attached the Apollo to my rifle. It will more than likely be the margin setting. What I
did was zeroed the day scope 100% to my liking. Then,while holding your aim at the target place a laser bore sight in your barrel. Mark the exact point of where the laser points. It does not have to be perfect in respect to where you are aiming. Now place the Apollo on your rifle and look thru the scope
with the thermal on. Make sure the laser is pointed at the spot you marked. You will then go to "settings" and then"margin". Adjust the margin until
your sight picture lines up exactly where your day scope X-hairs were. This should solve your problem.
My Apollo was shooting 30" left and 10" high when I first put it on my rifle. Hope this helps
did was zeroed the day scope 100% to my liking. Then,while holding your aim at the target place a laser bore sight in your barrel. Mark the exact point of where the laser points. It does not have to be perfect in respect to where you are aiming. Now place the Apollo on your rifle and look thru the scope
with the thermal on. Make sure the laser is pointed at the spot you marked. You will then go to "settings" and then"margin". Adjust the margin until
your sight picture lines up exactly where your day scope X-hairs were. This should solve your problem.
My Apollo was shooting 30" left and 10" high when I first put it on my rifle. Hope this helps
lazyeye
New Member
success! used your method, jpk. and the 1st group was just 1-1/4" both down and right. i'm a happy guy finally! don't have and have never used/needed a boresite laser, but that would've made everything quicker and easier, less time, less ammo, as flir-d-lee outlined. if the above hadn't worked, i'd sure have gotten one next! it sure would make 'seeing' rather than estimating the poa more exact.
so my apollo was firing well over 12" both down and right...at 25 yds! this digital stuff is way different!!
thanks for all your help and comments, everybody; i sure learned a lot. one more question before i finish the centering and backing out the distance. generally with my game rifles i set up a poi at 100 yds about 1-3/4 - 2" high to the poa in order to be zeroed dead on at about 200 yds. i've seen a number of folks with the ar .223 advocating a 50 yd zero. what do you all prefer and why?
again, many thanks, this has been driving me crazy
so my apollo was firing well over 12" both down and right...at 25 yds! this digital stuff is way different!!
thanks for all your help and comments, everybody; i sure learned a lot. one more question before i finish the centering and backing out the distance. generally with my game rifles i set up a poi at 100 yds about 1-3/4 - 2" high to the poa in order to be zeroed dead on at about 200 yds. i've seen a number of folks with the ar .223 advocating a 50 yd zero. what do you all prefer and why?
again, many thanks, this has been driving me crazy
What Lancer said and what you are looking for are the same goal. Depending on the cartridge and load you are zeroing, a 50yds zero with an AR results in a near 200yd zero as well.
The Federal Ammunition site has a good balistic calculator, and you can select one of their factory loads for illustration. Sight height should be set to the "universal" SOCOM standard, 2.54", and you will need to adjust velocity for your load/barrel length, etc.
At 25yds, for a 50yd and +/- 200yd zero, you should be low about 1.5".
Glad my suggestion worked out for you!
JPK
The Federal Ammunition site has a good balistic calculator, and you can select one of their factory loads for illustration. Sight height should be set to the "universal" SOCOM standard, 2.54", and you will need to adjust velocity for your load/barrel length, etc.
At 25yds, for a 50yd and +/- 200yd zero, you should be low about 1.5".
Glad my suggestion worked out for you!
JPK
Last edited:
Zero where you like so long as you can remember where the bullet is going to impact during the stress of being on your game (hogs, deer, coyote, etc.). Here is a great example of my partner's 2" high zero at 100 yards when head shooting a hog at ~100 yards and forgetting to compensate by aiming extra low. Hog was shot successfully later as it ran.
I zero at 100 yards. That is usually the apogee or very close to the apogee for the round such that I have a single functional point blank distance and not two as you would have when zeroing 2" high at 100 yards.
I found it interesting that my partner does the 2" high at 100 yards but then only rarely shoots much over 150, most of which is 100 or less. So he basically has a 200 yard zero which is a distance he shoots infrequently. My brain just doesn't wrap well around that concept. It works well for a lot of people, but not for me.
theblakester
Got a black belt in keeping it real.
LSB TURKEY BUZZARD PRESERVATION SOCIETY
SUS VENATOR CLUB
LoneStarBoars Supporter
Brian I am/was in a similar school of thought. So I zero about 1 inch high at 100 yds. That puts me 1.25 inches high at 125 yards and .75 inches high at 75 yards. And about a half inch high at 150. And about .75 inches low at 175. If u look at how it works out on the impact location vs distance it's easy for me to remember. Most of my shots are 50-75 which keeps me at a "negligible" impact difference. Worked for a head shot at 125-150 on this fox
When I started watching law mans videos I noticed that once they started gettin a little further out it looked like he was aiming low but he would roll hog after hog. Bc his impact is about 2 inches high at that distance. By the way, watching videos of others shooting running hogs has helped me tremendously at knowing where/how to lead hogs without having tons of experience shooting at them. So thanks to all of yall for sharing the videos!
When I started watching law mans videos I noticed that once they started gettin a little further out it looked like he was aiming low but he would roll hog after hog. Bc his impact is about 2 inches high at that distance. By the way, watching videos of others shooting running hogs has helped me tremendously at knowing where/how to lead hogs without having tons of experience shooting at them. So thanks to all of yall for sharing the videos!
I sight my thermal scopes at 100yds and call it good, since few night shots are much longer. I don't hold over or under and have not experienced too high or too low shots. (But I have had some unexplained misses!) With the 6.8 a 100yd zero puts POI within 1" of POA from about 30yds to about 140yds, so I can't blame any misses on the rifle's zero and 30 to 140yds accounts for nearly all night shooting opportunities for me. For my 5.56 a 100yd zero is not much different, with POI within 1" from about 37yds to 150yds. (Balistic date from the Fereral balistic calculator, using the 110gr Fushion load for the 6.8 and the 62gr MSR load for the 223R.)
But Lazeyeye has a clip on set up. Meaning to me that his day scope ought to be zero'd as appropriate for a day scope, and 50/~200 is a good zero for an AR platform, I think. With the 6.8 and a 50yd zero, apex is about 1" high at 100yds and second zero is at about 160yds. About 2.5" low at 200yds. With the 223R a 50/~200 zero provides 1.2" high at 100yds, apex at about 130yds at 1.3" high, second zero at about 180yds and 1" low at 200yds.
JPK
But Lazeyeye has a clip on set up. Meaning to me that his day scope ought to be zero'd as appropriate for a day scope, and 50/~200 is a good zero for an AR platform, I think. With the 6.8 and a 50yd zero, apex is about 1" high at 100yds and second zero is at about 160yds. About 2.5" low at 200yds. With the 223R a 50/~200 zero provides 1.2" high at 100yds, apex at about 130yds at 1.3" high, second zero at about 180yds and 1" low at 200yds.
JPK
Brian, I know from your videos and your posts that most of your night shooting with thermals is from stands as opposed to stalking or calling. But even hunting from a stand it would surprise me if the range of your average night shot at everything shoot at night was equal to the range of your average daylight shot through you day scoped rifles at everything you shoot in daylight.
On platforms, think about what has become the "universal" sight height for the AR/M16/M4 platform, the SOCOM standard of ~2.54" vs. the default but not often achieved "standard" for a bolt rifle, 1.5", (the default center of optic above center of bore sight height for every balistic calculator I have used and for every ammo manufacturer's tables. Refer to Federal's balistic charts and calculator for example.) Just the difference in centerline height requires a difference in sight in regimine.
As the Federal Ammunition trajectory figures I included indicate, an AR with a SOCOM standard sight height and a 50/~200yds zero has a very useful point blank range, for example, for the 223/5.56 shooting the Federal Fushion MSR load at game with a 3" diameter vital zone, point blank range runs from about 20yds to about 210yds. Please take a moment to confirm this using the Federal balistic calculator, or any other balistic calculator if you wish.
JPK
lazyeye
New Member
great stuff, folks. thank you.
i've been playing around with the federal site and, surprisingly, even at my altitude of around 6500' the ballistics don't change much from sea level.
i originally zeroed the ar about 1.5" (instead of 1.75-2.0) up at 100 yds, but after running the numbers, i'm going to go with the following:
ar: this will be used dayscope for calling coyotes, nightscopes for coyotes w/o calling most likely. in either case i like jpk's reasoning, and i'm going to go with a 100 yd zero. max drop of 2.2" at 200 yds and think it'll be inside that day or night. .223 hp 69 gr.
.270: dayscoped mainly for deer and antelope. deer can be mostly 150-200, but antelope in the open 200-250, so the 200 zero, down 2.5 at 250 is the ticket, which is where it's set now. 130 gr sp
.300wm: dayscoped for mainly elk (155-250+), occasional bear (100-150), so again staying w/200 zero, down 2.6 at 250. 180 gr. sp.
will change the ar zero in the next few days. still snowing....
i sure appreciate all the good thoughts. and brian, great photo!
i've been playing around with the federal site and, surprisingly, even at my altitude of around 6500' the ballistics don't change much from sea level.
i originally zeroed the ar about 1.5" (instead of 1.75-2.0) up at 100 yds, but after running the numbers, i'm going to go with the following:
ar: this will be used dayscope for calling coyotes, nightscopes for coyotes w/o calling most likely. in either case i like jpk's reasoning, and i'm going to go with a 100 yd zero. max drop of 2.2" at 200 yds and think it'll be inside that day or night. .223 hp 69 gr.
.270: dayscoped mainly for deer and antelope. deer can be mostly 150-200, but antelope in the open 200-250, so the 200 zero, down 2.5 at 250 is the ticket, which is where it's set now. 130 gr sp
.300wm: dayscoped for mainly elk (155-250+), occasional bear (100-150), so again staying w/200 zero, down 2.6 at 250. 180 gr. sp.
will change the ar zero in the next few days. still snowing....
i sure appreciate all the good thoughts. and brian, great photo!