POI problem w/ apollo pro 640 50mm in front of day scope

lazyeye

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i just got this (first thermal) and have the following problem i can't figure out. i have a rock river ar15 .223 w/ a picatinny rail. using a weaver 3-7x 32 mm day scope i have tight groups at 100 yds about 1.75 -2.0" high on a 2' x 2' target at 7x. when i put on the thermal (with its reticle turned off) after dark and put a hand warmer on the target's center, i see it totally clearly....but i don't hit anywhere on the entire paper!! any help with what i'm doing wrong or what may be going on here would be much appreciated! thanks.
 

Curly Shuffle

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At what yardage is this taking place?? And are you using the scope also? Without the scope thermal only start at 25 or 50 then move it to 100. BANG BANG!!
 

theblakester

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Curly, I think he's saying that his day scope is on point at 100 yds regardless of magnification, but when he uses the Apollo as a clip on in front of the day scope, it's not even on paper (I assume at 100 yards).
Sending pics of how u have it set up would probably help. Also, is your top rail on your handguard free floated and do u know if it holds zero. Maybe it's not properly aligned??

I'm following this for reference, but someone on here should be able to help u figure this out. Good luck!

I believe your best bet would be to stay in the 2x range with your day scope when using the thermal as a clip on in front of it. Like I said someone on here ought to give u a better answer and explanation or at least point u in the right direction of getting the optic fixed if there is an actual problem with the product and it's not something about he set up.
 
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Curly Shuffle

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I thought that also, to much scope for the unit. That is not a clip on unit,,, is it??? Anywhos if that is the case it is to much for the thermal. I have not even seen the use of a clip on but from what I have read that is to much magnification. Check for loose stuff but still think it is to much scope for the thermal??

Yup it is a clip on, that is what I read. So if the scope is a 3X and then the thermal is what ever then things will be off fo sure?? Best of luck. BANG BANG!!

Also makes a difference if the day scope is first or second focal too. (I would think?)
 
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lazyeye

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thanks for the replies. i'm attaching photos of the weaver day scope behing the apollo. i've been reading the various threads here, and it looks like using 3x optical is better than 7x, so i'll try that with the thermal (still w/o any digital zoom) at 25 yards and see if i hit the target at all. the rail is freefloating, both scopes are solidly attached, and the articles i've been reading about parallax shouldn't be an issue at 100 yards (at least in a single scope, but maybe with the second in front that could be an issue?). i will recheck my day scope reticle also. ar1.jpg ar2.jpg
 

Curly Shuffle

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Read up on that scope, heck of a unit. You can use that during the day and night and have just as much or better (except for pixel problems at high mag) than the day time scope you have (my thoughts), make sure it is turned down to 1X and start off close and make sure you do not have anything loose?? Good luck. BANG BANG!! Let us know whats up?? always nice to learn new/er stuff?
 

lazyeye

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thanks, curly. getting snow right now and have to go feed some cattle w/sleigh, but will be trying a few things w/in a few days. right now i'm zeroed for 200 w/ groups up 2" at 100 yds. i will start at 25 yds w/ low day scope power and go from there; need to see something somewhere on the target sheet! i may try the apollo alone w/its reticle as a 1x weapon sight, boresight its reticle and see how that does out of curiosity. it says in the manual if you increase mag it doesn't change its boresight, it just progressively pixelates.

also theblakester's point about whether the forward handguard's rail holds a zero is unknown. the rear one w/the daysight does. i guess i could determine this by overlaying the thermal reticle on the day scope's and see if it holds steady over a number of rounds. need to get something on paper to start with!

i'll report back. thanks again.
buol
 

Taco

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Interested to see responses from people that actually have clip ons.
 

TEXASLAWMAN

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I have used many of the apollo clip ons, a few of those I had to adjust the margins a few inches tops. I think the problem is coming from the weaver scope. Do you have another scope you can try? I've used them with eotech ' s aimpoints, Trijicon's, Leupold, Vortex, US optics, Nightforce.

Someone here had the same problem about a year ago and it turned out to be the day scope.
 

Curly Shuffle

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And while they are at it please explain the purpose of the day scope when you can use those for day and night and some of them have enough or more power than the day scope??
 

TEXASLAWMAN

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And while they are at it please explain the purpose of the day scope when you can use those for day and night and some of them have enough or more power than the day scope??

Not sure exactly what you are asking but maybe this.
 
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lazyeye

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yes, texaslawman, i was wondering that too, as i'd watched your wonderful video reviews and almost got a vortex as a result but looked to save some $ and use a scope i had. i also have either a leupold 4-12 vx-II or a nikon 3-9 buckmasters i could try behind the apollo. any thought on which to try first?

also, the video clip above doesn't play on my computer, but i think it might be that the thermal scope in daylight has a problem with ambient lighting, even with the light suppressor? or rather your eye has a problem seeing the image with any ambient light.
 

TEXASLAWMAN

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yes, texaslawman, i was wondering that too, as i'd watched your wonderful video reviews and almost got a vortex as a result but looked to save some $ and use a scope i had. i also have either a leupold 4-12 vx-II or a nikon 3-9 buckmasters i could try behind the apollo. any thought on which to try first?

also, the video clip above doesn't play on my computer, but i think it might be that the thermal scope in daylight has a problem with ambient lighting, even with the light suppressor? or rather your eye has a problem seeing the image with any ambient light.
Do you have another rifke to test on if so I would test both just to narrow down the problem. Of course if it goes away with the first one you know what it is. The only thing you loose at higher magnification will be resolution. But 3x or 4x either should look good.
 

JPK

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TLM,

The video isn't working for me either. It says "An Error Occurred... Try later..."

JPK
 

lazyeye

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i'll try the leupold as i can set the parallax ring for 100 yds to remove that variable, though no amount of parallax should make you miss a 2x2' target at 100 yards. don't have another gun w/ a rail, so i'll rezero the leupold on the ar.... hassle! will report back. thanks.
 

TEXASLAWMAN

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i'll try the leupold as i can set the parallax ring for 100 yds to remove that variable, though no amount of parallax should make you miss a 2x2' target at 100 yards. don't have another gun w/ a rail, so i'll rezero the leupold on the ar.... hassle! will report back. thanks.
I really think its the weaver I forget the other scope the guy had problems with but it was doing the same thing.
 

lazyeye

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thanks tlm. i'll report back after i work through this w/ the leupold. just in case, of the other scopes you mentioned/tried, which would you favor w/the apollo? i have a limited time to get this working, as we're starting to get day thaw/night freeze here = walkable crust, which brings lots of coyotes and wolves travelling hereabouts, and we've lost a lot to them in the dark last year, so i've got to get functional sooner the better. thanks.
 

TEXASLAWMAN

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thanks tlm. i'll report back after i work through this w/ the leupold. just in case, of the other scopes you mentioned/tried, which would you favor w/the apollo? i have a limited time to get this working, as we're starting to get day thaw/night freeze here = walkable crust, which brings lots of coyotes and wolves travelling hereabouts, and we've lost a lot to them in the dark last year, so i've got to get functional sooner the better. thanks.
I would use the one you consider the highest quality scope. Just guessing I would say the Leupold.
 
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