Who has used the heavy duty Military Thermals? How do they compare?

[rich20730]

Are these legal to own and sell for civilians? Was offered it in a trade but very wary of it

They are, but I would steer clear of any unit that does not have paperwork showing exactly where it came from. There are a lot of people out there who can tell a convincing tale about the origins of any particular unit, but the truth is that unless they have documentation showing chain of title tracing back to the manufacturer or an authorized distributor (these are listed on the BAE/OASYS website) you are taking a huge risk.

The DOD uses a two-part test to determine whether a device is considered contraband/stolen property, and therefore subject to seizure:

1. Was the particular unit ever sold to the military?
2. Does it have a DEMIL code that prohibits transfer of the item to the general public, or mandates destruction of the item upon the end of its service life.

If these two conditions are met, the item is considered contraband and they will seize the item.

To save you some time, the DEMIL code for the UTM-X is "D"
D -- USML or CCL Military Items- DEMIL required. Destroy item and components to prevent restoration or repair to a usable condition..

 

[Mindreader1]

Thanks Rich. So to be sure - guy just said he got it at a gun show. There's no markings on any of the units that show it's military. But all units then are meant for the military right?

They are, but I would steer clear of any unit that does not have paperwork showing exactly where it came from. There are a lot of people out there who can tell a convincing tale about the origins of any particular unit, but the truth is that unless they have documentation showing chain of title tracing back to the manufacturer or an authorized distributor (these are listed on the BAE/OASYS website) you are taking a huge risk.

The DOD uses a two-part test to determine whether a device is considered contraband/stolen property, and therefore subject to seizure:

1. Was the particular unit ever sold to the military?
2. Does it have a DEMIL code that prohibits transfer of the item to the general public, or mandates destruction of the item upon the end of its service life.

If these two conditions are met, the item is considered contraband and they will seize the item.

To save you some time, the DEMIL code for the UTM-X is "D"
D -- USML or CCL Military Items- DEMIL required. Destroy item and components to prevent restoration or repair to a usable condition..

 

[rich20730]

Thanks Rich. So to be sure - guy just said he got it at a gun show. There's no markings on any of the units that show it's military. But all units then are meant for the military right?

"Gun show" would be a red flag for me. Not all units are sold to the military, but I would guess most are. The presence of a Contract Number, CAD, or NSN number may be an indicator. The units that are sold to civilians should have paperwork/receipt from the vendor or the manufacturer.

 

[Brian Shaffer]

Three folks I know that bought LWTS units ALL sold them off and got IR Defense (now Trijicon) units instead. All are happier with the result.

 

[Mindreader1]

"Gun show" would be a red flag for me. Not all units are sold to the military, but I would guess most are. The presence of a Contract Number, CAD, or NSN number may be an indicator. The units that are sold to civilians should have paperwork/receipt from the vendor or the manufacturer.

Declined it. Not gonna risk it. Thanks for the help Rich!

 

[rich20730]

Declined it. Not gonna risk it. Thanks for the help Rich!

No problem!

 

[znztivguy]

Too bad the IR defense (Trijicon) thermals don't have designating lasers and digital compass function. Not to mention the LWTS could not compare to the Oasys products in the first place..... AGAIN in my humble opinion. I do like the newer commercial products I checked out. Some have View within View which was really cool while shooting hogs...

 

[Mindreader1]

Are you referring to the pulsars?

Too bad the IR defense (Trijicon) thermals don't have designating lasers and digital compass function. Not to mention the LWTS could not compare to the Oasys products in the first place..... AGAIN in my humble opinion. I do like the newer commercial products I checked out. Some have View within View which was really cool while shooting hogs...

 

[ffrank martinez]

My bud has two OASYS thermals, one is a UTMx a 17 micron handheld/clip on thermal one model iteration from the current model. The other is a UTC, which is also 25 microns and one or two model iterations from current (the current model is the UTCxii, which is 12 microns.)

The view through the UTM is very nice and "smooth," you could look through it for hours without eye fatigue. Compared to my IRD MKII the image was smoother, less contrasty, but performance was similar as far as I could tell - my 35mm MKII is 2.45x, the UTM is 1x. I would say the LWTS, UTM and IRD products all have similar views, with the LWTS and UTM having "smoother" views, the IRD's having slightly more "contrasty" views. All similar in performance though, so the IRD shines for price.

The UTC is a remarkable, specialized clip on. It is useless as a handheld since the screen is tiny. But even with the day scope at 10x (which didn't quite provide a view of the screen which filled the view through the day scope) the view was pretty crisp. Similar at 10x to the MKII or UTM at 2x digital as far a sharpness. Usable with the day scope at 20x. A true long range capable thermal option. We could ID deer vs. raccoon, fox or coyote at well over 1,000 yards. If the marksman was up to it, shooting at that range was well within the UTC's capabilities.

With plenty of deer, a couple of fox, coyotes and raccoons to spot and watch, it was fun comparing the thermals we had along. I had my Pulsar HD 19A and my IRD MKII, I wish I had brought my Pulsar HD50S. My bud had the two OASYS thermals. What was interesting was the detection range differences. The thermals with either day scope magnification or native magnification could detect more critters, even when the resolution was similar and, in the case of the MK II, when the lens was smaller. The 19A could detect deer standing in soybeans to about 900 yards, but struggled with deer standing at the edge of the woods at 600 or so, where the resolution and 1x wouldn't permit separation of the hot spot the deer represented from other not quite so hot spots, like tree trunks. The 640 units didn't have that issue.

Fwiw, there are a couple of UTM's and UTC's similar to the ones my bud had available for sale, with a traceable, legit provenance and bill of sale. IIRC the pricing, it was $7-8k for a UTM, with all of the kit they come with from BAE originally, including Wilcox weapon mount, cords for recorders, etc.

JPK
[Edited to reflect accurate pricing and the model my bud has - only available to LE and Mil]

 

[ffrank martinez]

Asked a buddy who works with Thermals. He informed me that most of the military stuff is still 17 microns, currently updating to 12 microns. Capability between the two are not that different. The difference is in the form factor and the power consumption. The 17 micron is a more mature stable form factor, while the 12 has yet to be proven to be reliable long term. The 12 micron is better for the companies because the yield per wafer is higher, so they get better economies of scale and can bring their costs down. Hence BAE selling their 12 micron chip to IRD. So far the costs have translated to some drop in commercial Thermal prices. Military thermals buffering is far superior than the commercial stuff and the software is simpler to use. Friends with the IRD while gushing about performance, are really unhappy with what they deem is under par support on the software and firmware side.
None of the Commercial thermals have compass or IR laser, Red Laser designation capability, someone can prove me wrong.
Two versions of the oasys...the UTM and UTM-X. Don't think the upgrades are only in the Microns the thermal detector chip is. I think is part what you mentioned the smoothness and stable refresh rate of the field of view.
Thanks for your info... you can PM me to where I can find those second hand UTM's or UTM-X's

I know this an old post but does your buddy have the two thermals

 

[Shooter]

the problem with the OASYS is that BAE bought them and they will not do any warranty work on them. unless they were sold after the acquisition. The dealer that told me this did advise that they are definitely one of the better thermals out there. I did see them in use in Afghanistan although I never had one. He advised that the chances of a problem are slim but if there is one you may be out 5K or so.

I backed off as I can not afford that hicky if it goes down. Last I looked there was one for sale on Ebay and two on Snipers Hide. That was a while ago.

 

[ffrank martinez]

the problem with the OASYS is that BAE bought them and they will not do any warranty work on them. unless they were sold after the acquisition. The dealer that told me this did advise that they are definitely one of the better thermals out there. I did see them in use in Afghanistan although I never had one. He advised that the chances of a problem are slim but if there is one you may be out 5K or so.

I backed off as I can not afford that hicky if it goes down. Last I looked there was one for sale on Ebay and two on Snipers Hide. That was a while ago.

Have access to one of interested.