Louis Richards
LSB Member
Every article I have read says that current users prefer the white phosphorous to green 7 out of 10. You ever tried? Your opinion?
Practicing with Night Vision
- Thread starter wigwamitus
- Start date
wigwamitus
LSB Active Member
Nah, I'm a green guy ... one of the 3 out of 10 I guess ...
My guess, for me is that white would cause more headaches.
With the Apollo learned the trick of using red hot or sepia to mitigate ... white is better for instantaneous viewing but for walking around for hours, more subdued causes less headaches for me. So it is with the thermals, so for me at least probably also true for the NV.
That said, I'd like to look through one, one day, but haven't had the chance.
==
I am in Big CA this week for work trip, so no shooting seeing, moving shooting at night for me this week
My guess, for me is that white would cause more headaches.
With the Apollo learned the trick of using red hot or sepia to mitigate ... white is better for instantaneous viewing but for walking around for hours, more subdued causes less headaches for me. So it is with the thermals, so for me at least probably also true for the NV.
That said, I'd like to look through one, one day, but haven't had the chance.
==
I am in Big CA this week for work trip, so no shooting seeing, moving shooting at night for me this week
Louis Richards
LSB Member
Driving myself insane over here over night vision. Seems like even the military is phasing out the 7 in favor of the 14s. Gen 2+ 1/2 the price gen 3. Still debating on the mono versus goggles. Make it worse, if goggles, than two tubes would be an even bigger advantage, and of course twice the money. That will be looking at the same price range as my thermal in gen3...
So now my big internal debate, is Gen 2+ in dual tube goggles vs Gen3 Pinnacle in 7 or 14. For all practical purposes, within a few hundred dollars, all three of those options are about the same price. If Gen 3 why not the best Gen 3 pinnacle? To spend $3500 and be worried about $300 or $400 more for the pinnacle just doesn't make any sense to me. If you're going to go top-of-the-line, then go top-of-the-line.
But for a man like me, Gen 2+ plus may be MORE than sufficient. You can't go by the video comparisons. It's like walking into Walmart and comparing big-screen TVs. Why you're there looking at the comparisons, you always want to get the bigger one. But once you get home and set it up in your living room, the smaller size one you have looks great and the few inches it was smaller than the next biggest one you saw is totally meaningless know that you're watching Seinfeld.
So my trade-off is Gen 2+ in a dual tube goggle, versus Gen 3 pinnacle in either a 7 or 14. Hmmmmmm. Decisions, decisions. Or just keep my Yukon and be happy
After it's all said and done, after researching for untold hours, I guess I still can't make a decision over the mono versus the goggles. It comes down to this. I want the goggles. But "others" wisdom tells me I'm making a mistake. And I want to lean towards what others know that I don't. And that's what the problem is. I can't wrap my brain around why anyone would possibly want to look thru something with one eye versus two...
I have put on my Yukon's and walked around the house but when it's pitch black my one unaided eye doesn't do anything for me. Just see's black with it. So what good is it?
So now my big internal debate, is Gen 2+ in dual tube goggles vs Gen3 Pinnacle in 7 or 14. For all practical purposes, within a few hundred dollars, all three of those options are about the same price. If Gen 3 why not the best Gen 3 pinnacle? To spend $3500 and be worried about $300 or $400 more for the pinnacle just doesn't make any sense to me. If you're going to go top-of-the-line, then go top-of-the-line.
But for a man like me, Gen 2+ plus may be MORE than sufficient. You can't go by the video comparisons. It's like walking into Walmart and comparing big-screen TVs. Why you're there looking at the comparisons, you always want to get the bigger one. But once you get home and set it up in your living room, the smaller size one you have looks great and the few inches it was smaller than the next biggest one you saw is totally meaningless know that you're watching Seinfeld.
So my trade-off is Gen 2+ in a dual tube goggle, versus Gen 3 pinnacle in either a 7 or 14. Hmmmmmm. Decisions, decisions. Or just keep my Yukon and be happy
After it's all said and done, after researching for untold hours, I guess I still can't make a decision over the mono versus the goggles. It comes down to this. I want the goggles. But "others" wisdom tells me I'm making a mistake. And I want to lean towards what others know that I don't. And that's what the problem is. I can't wrap my brain around why anyone would possibly want to look thru something with one eye versus two...
I have put on my Yukon's and walked around the house but when it's pitch black my one unaided eye doesn't do anything for me. Just see's black with it. So what good is it?
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I've been following this thread from the beginning and it seems that all the information needed to make an informed decision has been shared. So, LR, the bottom line for you is to use the information given, quit beating yourself up and buy something (or not) and move on. No one can make the decision for you and have you happy with the outcome anyway. Also, ultimately if you don't get what you're gut tells you to get, you will never be completely happy.
Louis Richards
LSB Member
I will never be completely happy ever since I opened that door... I was completely happy before I was aware such devices were even made
wigwamitus
LSB Active Member
Agree with Chopper's words ...
My recommendation for L.R. is get one PVS-14 first ... but get a dual mount. Dual mounts are easier to adjust and more stable (I have dual mount and USGI mount and use both often).
Then, try that out ... if you decide you want the second PVS-14, get it.
This spreads out your spending ... and gives you a chance to learn more before you leap in to both tubes.
My recommendation for L.R. is get one PVS-14 first ... but get a dual mount. Dual mounts are easier to adjust and more stable (I have dual mount and USGI mount and use both often).
Then, try that out ... if you decide you want the second PVS-14, get it.
This spreads out your spending ... and gives you a chance to learn more before you leap in to both tubes.
wigwamitus
LSB Active Member
BTW, Pinnacle is one of the best, the other is L-3 ... called "FLAG" by some ....
L-3 more likely to survive recoil ... if you weapons mount it ... and in my experience works a little better in almost total darknesss than pinnalce, though pinnacle is brighter ... I started out with one of each ... and that would be my ideal mix.
L-3 more likely to survive recoil ... if you weapons mount it ... and in my experience works a little better in almost total darknesss than pinnalce, though pinnacle is brighter ... I started out with one of each ... and that would be my ideal mix.
Louis Richards
LSB Member
Do you use a counterweight?
wigwamitus
LSB Active Member
Absolutely ... I have counter-weights on both helmets .... I'm using the Aaron strategy of having counter-weight mass being useful not just weight. So my counter-weight masses consist of batteries and .45ACP magazines with 7 rds each. The counter-weight mass on back should be about the same as the weight on the front. That reduces negative effects of pressure from the tension on the helmet tensioning system.
Louis Richards
LSB Member
Brilliant, absolutely brilliant
wigwamitus
LSB Active Member
2015-10-12
2100-2200
60F
5 MPH WNW
Goal: Check .22LR standing/sitting from 4-wheeler with ir-laser. Check q-14 mounted on ops core helmet.
Environment: No moon, some wisps of clouds up there, but stars and milky way clearly visible. Orion finally approaching "front and center" in the viewing space.
Equipment: pvs-14 on TW helmet. .22lr, sling, ir-laser, vo 1-6x (3x) eley edge ... q-14 on Ops Core helmet ... 4 wheeler.
Activity: First outing, rode around for 10m with the OC helmet and q-14 to practice navigating with thermal. This isn't the first time, but it is the first time for this long and me going farther away from the buildings. It is "different" ... but I think I can get used to it. I find myself turning head back and forth a little, just to try to go straight, to stay on the "road" or make sure I'm not about to hit something outside my (lack of) peripheral vision. It "feels" like I have less FOV than with as PVS-14 and it is a little less 36 versus 40, but not much. I rode up and down the roads up to the tops of a couple of hills and did not crash.
I am running the q-14 on sepia.
Then put q-14 in pocket and switched helmets and went back out. Rode to far side of land to hill 1309 and did 360s. I could see cows at about 1500yds to the west and 800yds to the South and Horses 1000yds to the NNW.
Then rode down to about 100yds from the 12 inch steel and fired 5 rounds, missed with the first round - off to the right as I called it. Hit with next 4 rounds. I was standing up on the buggy to be able to see over the top of the grass right around the pond. Then rode to several different spots till I could finally see through the grass from sitting on the buggy and fired 5 rounds from there and got 5 hits. I had to turn on the illuminator on the helmet. I run it on lowest power setting and maximum zoom. This steel is "hidden" in the woods near the pond, more visible in the winter than in the summer.
I was using the sling it was tensioned correctly. It provided good support. So I could shoot standing or sitting from 4-wheeler without dismounting. The laser max ir-laser worked just fine, no issue with bloom in the conditions last night. I started the laser low to the right and brought it up to the left onto the target and fired. That worked every time except the first time.
Note that firing from sitting is not the same as fired seated from the ground. At least the way I was firing last night I was not using other parts of my body or like the 4-wheeler handle bars for additional support. So firing sitting was more like firing standing, I just wasn't standing. I've used handle bars once for support, but didn't last night as I couldn't get down any lower than I was and still see the target.
Results: I'm still hoping I can figure out a way to mount the q-14 side by side with a pvs-14, that's why I got it, but no joy so far. Armasight has been cogitating on the problem for a couple of weeks, but they keep calling me and telling me they need more "research" time. Worst case I have to sell the q-14 and switch to pas-29. I'd rather not do that, because I think the 640 in the q-14 makes it a better thermal, but I'm 99.999% sure I can run the pas-29 on a helmet beside a pvs-14 on my helmet mount. I've talked on the phone with someone who has done it.
But regardless I am practicing with navigating with the q-14 helmet mounted. I'm sure it should not be done in all conditions, but it does seem like it can be done in many conditions.
On the return trip from the shooting exercise, I had the pvs-14 on the TW helmet and I tried to do a "speed run" ... I was able to mostly sustain a "mighty" 20 MPH it felt like 100 mph ... at this point I would not want to try that with the q-14.
I will knock down a bit of grass along the pond bank so I can get out to 150yds. On dark nights I might need to use the 3x magnifier on the pvs-14 to see the target.
I had removed the makeshift cover I had over the speedometer on the 4-wheeler so I could look down with unaided eye, I was able to sustain 20 mph, though it felt like 100 mph ... I would not want to try that with the q-14 at this time
2100-2200
60F
5 MPH WNW
Goal: Check .22LR standing/sitting from 4-wheeler with ir-laser. Check q-14 mounted on ops core helmet.
Environment: No moon, some wisps of clouds up there, but stars and milky way clearly visible. Orion finally approaching "front and center" in the viewing space.
Equipment: pvs-14 on TW helmet. .22lr, sling, ir-laser, vo 1-6x (3x) eley edge ... q-14 on Ops Core helmet ... 4 wheeler.
Activity: First outing, rode around for 10m with the OC helmet and q-14 to practice navigating with thermal. This isn't the first time, but it is the first time for this long and me going farther away from the buildings. It is "different" ... but I think I can get used to it. I find myself turning head back and forth a little, just to try to go straight, to stay on the "road" or make sure I'm not about to hit something outside my (lack of) peripheral vision. It "feels" like I have less FOV than with as PVS-14 and it is a little less 36 versus 40, but not much. I rode up and down the roads up to the tops of a couple of hills and did not crash.
I am running the q-14 on sepia.
Then put q-14 in pocket and switched helmets and went back out. Rode to far side of land to hill 1309 and did 360s. I could see cows at about 1500yds to the west and 800yds to the South and Horses 1000yds to the NNW.
Then rode down to about 100yds from the 12 inch steel and fired 5 rounds, missed with the first round - off to the right as I called it. Hit with next 4 rounds. I was standing up on the buggy to be able to see over the top of the grass right around the pond. Then rode to several different spots till I could finally see through the grass from sitting on the buggy and fired 5 rounds from there and got 5 hits. I had to turn on the illuminator on the helmet. I run it on lowest power setting and maximum zoom. This steel is "hidden" in the woods near the pond, more visible in the winter than in the summer.
I was using the sling it was tensioned correctly. It provided good support. So I could shoot standing or sitting from 4-wheeler without dismounting. The laser max ir-laser worked just fine, no issue with bloom in the conditions last night. I started the laser low to the right and brought it up to the left onto the target and fired. That worked every time except the first time.
Note that firing from sitting is not the same as fired seated from the ground. At least the way I was firing last night I was not using other parts of my body or like the 4-wheeler handle bars for additional support. So firing sitting was more like firing standing, I just wasn't standing. I've used handle bars once for support, but didn't last night as I couldn't get down any lower than I was and still see the target.
Results: I'm still hoping I can figure out a way to mount the q-14 side by side with a pvs-14, that's why I got it, but no joy so far. Armasight has been cogitating on the problem for a couple of weeks, but they keep calling me and telling me they need more "research" time
. Worst case I have to sell the q-14 and switch to pas-29. I'd rather not do that, because I think the 640 in the q-14 makes it a better thermal, but I'm 99.999% sure I can run the pas-29 on a helmet beside a pvs-14 on my helmet mount. I've talked on the phone with someone who has done it. But regardless I am practicing with navigating with the q-14 helmet mounted. I'm sure it should not be done in all conditions, but it does seem like it can be done in many conditions.
On the return trip from the shooting exercise, I had the pvs-14 on the TW helmet and I tried to do a "speed run" ... I was able to mostly sustain a "mighty" 20 MPH
it felt like 100 mph ... at this point I would not want to try that with the q-14. I will knock down a bit of grass along the pond bank so I can get out to 150yds. On dark nights I might need to use the 3x magnifier on the pvs-14 to see the target.
I had removed the makeshift cover I had over the speedometer on the 4-wheeler so I could look down with unaided eye, I was able to sustain 20 mph, though it felt like 100 mph ... I would not want to try that with the q-14 at this time
wigwamitus
LSB Active Member
2015-10-14
2100-2300
40F
0 MPH WNW
Goal: Check 5.56(18) at 100-500yds with Zeus.
Environment: Absolultely no wind ... and with colder temps for past 3 weeks, this was the quietest night in a long time ... hecque it seemed like the quietest night I'd EVER (not) heard. The silence was deafening!
Stars extremely visible, Orion, Cass, Andromeda, Milky Way everything up there.
No moon.
Equipment: 5.56(18) FLC 55gr, sling, harris 9-12 (9), SPW556, LRF, 3x magnifier, q-14 in belt pouch. PVS-14 on helmet. Buggy.
Activity: I got a new shipment of handwarmers, so went out to reverify 5.56(18) with Zeus. I had done cleaning job during the day.
Went to top of signal (one tree) hill and did some 360s with the thermal. Was able to see one batch of cows near our buildings at 300yds and another batch to the South at 600yds. No cows in the pasture to the West, they may have already departed "to Florida" as we say.
Went to target and setup 2 handwarmers, then to 100yds FP and laser distance. Fired 2 rounds, was 6 inches high and 3 inches right. Cranked reticle from -9 to -10 elevation, fired 2 rounds. They both went in the same hole but would 5 inches high and 3 inches right. Cranked windage from 23 to 19 and elevation from -10 to -14. Fired 2 rds, hit the 3 inch target circle with 1 inch group on extreme left side. Cranked windage -19 to -20, fired 2 rds. Was 1 inch to the left! That should not be. Checked Zeus and it was loose I had checked before I left house and it was not loose. But sometimes if scopes, especially the lever ones ... are almost loose, they might feel tight, but then loosen up under recoil. The new bobro mounts that have been on the trucks heading our way for months are supposed to help with this problem!
So aborted that mission and did rtb. Before doing so heard one batch of coyotes 300-400yds to the East yipping ... and then another group 200yds to the NW piped in, it was a loud course for about a minute. After ryb, I took .45acp and 4-wheeler and headed over to alfalfa patch to see what was up. Didn't see any coyotes, but three deer were there two of which were already bedded down. I wanted to head through the alfalfa patch and check the brome and prairie hay patches on the North side of the creek, but decided not to run off the deer to get there.
Summary: Have started new process of cleaning rifles after each shoot. It isn't the barrel cleaning ... it is picking the carbon "dust" out of the chamber, the lugs, the bcg, etc. I spent much more time with dental pic than with boresnake.
2100-2300
40F
0 MPH WNW
Goal: Check 5.56(18) at 100-500yds with Zeus.
Environment: Absolultely no wind ... and with colder temps for past 3 weeks, this was the quietest night in a long time ... hecque it seemed like the quietest night I'd EVER (not) heard. The silence was deafening!
Stars extremely visible, Orion, Cass, Andromeda, Milky Way everything up there.
No moon.
Equipment: 5.56(18) FLC 55gr, sling, harris 9-12 (9), SPW556, LRF, 3x magnifier, q-14 in belt pouch. PVS-14 on helmet. Buggy.
Activity: I got a new shipment of handwarmers, so went out to reverify 5.56(18) with Zeus. I had done cleaning job during the day.
Went to top of signal (one tree) hill and did some 360s with the thermal. Was able to see one batch of cows near our buildings at 300yds and another batch to the South at 600yds. No cows in the pasture to the West, they may have already departed "to Florida" as we say.
Went to target and setup 2 handwarmers, then to 100yds FP and laser distance. Fired 2 rounds, was 6 inches high and 3 inches right. Cranked reticle from -9 to -10 elevation, fired 2 rounds. They both went in the same hole but would 5 inches high and 3 inches right. Cranked windage from 23 to 19 and elevation from -10 to -14. Fired 2 rds, hit the 3 inch target circle with 1 inch group on extreme left side. Cranked windage -19 to -20, fired 2 rds. Was 1 inch to the left! That should not be. Checked Zeus and it was loose
I had checked before I left house and it was not loose. But sometimes if scopes, especially the lever ones ... are almost loose, they might feel tight, but then loosen up under recoil. The new bobro mounts that have been on the trucks heading our way for months are supposed to help with this problem!So aborted that mission and did rtb. Before doing so heard one batch of coyotes 300-400yds to the East yipping ... and then another group 200yds to the NW piped in, it was a loud course for about a minute. After ryb, I took .45acp and 4-wheeler and headed over to alfalfa patch to see what was up. Didn't see any coyotes, but three deer were there two of which were already bedded down. I wanted to head through the alfalfa patch and check the brome and prairie hay patches on the North side of the creek, but decided not to run off the deer to get there.
Summary: Have started new process of cleaning rifles after each shoot. It isn't the barrel cleaning ... it is picking the carbon "dust" out of the chamber, the lugs, the bcg, etc. I spent much more time with dental pic than with boresnake.
wigwamitus
LSB Active Member
2015-10-16
2200-0100
40F
3 MPH E
Goal: Check 5.56(18) at 100yds with Zeus.
Environment: Light breeze from East. CLoudy, 97% coverge over me, 1-2 stars visible, no moon. Dark and cool, wore light jacket and sweater over tee shirt.
Equipment: 5.56(18) FLC 55gr, sling, harris 9-12 (9), SPW556, LRF, 3x magnifier, q-14 on helmet. PVS-14 in belt pouch. Canteen, kestrel, .45acp, 10rds each in 3 x 20rd mags.
Activity: Before starting, added fuel to 4-wheeler, not a good idea, still some water in the tank, had to abort with 4-wheeler spitting and cutting out and switch to buggy. This meant had to use pvs-14 handheld to nagivate, not even sure why I took it, but I did, so no time lost to go switch gear. But it was very dark, though not too dark to see. I will have to siphon out the water tomorrow.
Drove out to Alfalfa patch and saw (the usual) three deer. Got some video.
[video]
Closet deer on our right is about 120yds, next closet deer on our left is about 180yds. These are tree branches between us and the deer on the left, farthest deer in the center is about 300yds. Closet deer is young, deer on left is adult. I see three deer in the Alfalfa patch all the time, might be the same three.
==
Then drove out to target area and setup 2 handwarmers. I had tightened the mount and remounted the Zeus, so expected to be off a bit. I have a rail clip on the rail so I can remount the Zeus in the same rail position each time.
G01 - 2 rds - 100yds - left and a bit low, cranked W from -19 to -23 and E from -14 to -13.
G02 - 2 rds - 100yds - a little low, cranked E from -13 to -12.
G03 - 2 rds - 100yds - a little high and left, cranked W from -24 to -25
G04 - 2 rds - 100yds - high and right. cranked W from -25 to -24 and E from -12 to -11 (wrong way!)
G05 - 2 rds - 100yds - high and left. cranked E from -11 to -16 and W from -24 to -25.
G06 - 2 rds - 100yds - low and centered. cranked E from -16 to -15, also extended stock by one click.
G07 - 8 rds - 100yds - Fire for Effect. Emptied mag in three quick bursts, 3+3+2 all hit the hand warmers (the target).
I was able to move in the pasture with no aid ... there was just barely enough light reflecting off the clouds to let me navigate. At the targets I used 3 lumen RBGW on R. Coyotes to the E and N. I don't yet know the names of the various sounds they make, but these sounds tonight were a combination of low bark and low yips together from single coyotes.
On the way back, the PVS-14 I was holding up to my head had a red flashing light inside - this has happened on occasion but it was more intense tonight and wouldn't stop. I decided to turn off the 14. I was just barely able to see the buggy trail and managed to make it across Turtle Creek Bridge without going off the bride. The gravel on that pipe bridge was lite up just enough to see it. I guess it is time to get that 14 looked at, the other pvs-14 on the TW helmet is still working fine. Two is One.
Results/Summary: My brain still struggles a bit with remembering which way to crank the E&W on the Zeus. The 3 inch square target presented by the 2 handwarmers is actually quite large with the 3x Zeus at 100yds, so trying to find a consistent aiming point is not 100% trivial. Process I used was to place the red reticle so that I could see white from the handwarmers on all four quadrants around the center cross of the reticle. We will see how things go farther out. I try not to use breath control as when hunting we will not always be able to time our shots at the optimal moment related to our breathing.
During the previous longer distance attempts -10 was the 100yd E setting and -8 was 350yds and -2 was 500yds. But I also recall the -10 was high at 100yds, so, we might not be so different this time.
Equipment issues! 4-wheeler needs fuel cleaning and back up pvs-14 needs depot work, but goal was accomplished. Training the "fat" (i.e. the brain which is made out of fat) to continue despite issues is useful. We should allow ourselves to be taken out of our comfort zones as much as possible, safely. Driving with no aid tonight was probably the edge of safety.
2200-0100
40F
3 MPH E
Goal: Check 5.56(18) at 100yds with Zeus.
Environment: Light breeze from East. CLoudy, 97% coverge over me, 1-2 stars visible, no moon. Dark and cool, wore light jacket and sweater over tee shirt.
Equipment: 5.56(18) FLC 55gr, sling, harris 9-12 (9), SPW556, LRF, 3x magnifier, q-14 on helmet. PVS-14 in belt pouch. Canteen, kestrel, .45acp, 10rds each in 3 x 20rd mags.
Activity: Before starting, added fuel to 4-wheeler, not a good idea, still some water in the tank, had to abort with 4-wheeler spitting and cutting out and switch to buggy. This meant had to use pvs-14 handheld to nagivate, not even sure why I took it, but I did, so no time lost to go switch gear. But it was very dark, though not too dark to see. I will have to siphon out the water tomorrow.
Drove out to Alfalfa patch and saw (the usual) three deer. Got some video.
[video]
Closet deer on our right is about 120yds, next closet deer on our left is about 180yds. These are tree branches between us and the deer on the left, farthest deer in the center is about 300yds. Closet deer is young, deer on left is adult. I see three deer in the Alfalfa patch all the time, might be the same three.
==
Then drove out to target area and setup 2 handwarmers. I had tightened the mount and remounted the Zeus, so expected to be off a bit. I have a rail clip on the rail so I can remount the Zeus in the same rail position each time.
G01 - 2 rds - 100yds - left and a bit low, cranked W from -19 to -23 and E from -14 to -13.
G02 - 2 rds - 100yds - a little low, cranked E from -13 to -12.
G03 - 2 rds - 100yds - a little high and left, cranked W from -24 to -25
G04 - 2 rds - 100yds - high and right. cranked W from -25 to -24 and E from -12 to -11 (wrong way!)
G05 - 2 rds - 100yds - high and left. cranked E from -11 to -16 and W from -24 to -25.
G06 - 2 rds - 100yds - low and centered. cranked E from -16 to -15, also extended stock by one click.
G07 - 8 rds - 100yds - Fire for Effect. Emptied mag in three quick bursts, 3+3+2 all hit the hand warmers (the target).
I was able to move in the pasture with no aid ... there was just barely enough light reflecting off the clouds to let me navigate. At the targets I used 3 lumen RBGW on R. Coyotes to the E and N. I don't yet know the names of the various sounds they make, but these sounds tonight were a combination of low bark and low yips together from single coyotes.
On the way back, the PVS-14 I was holding up to my head had a red flashing light inside - this has happened on occasion but it was more intense tonight and wouldn't stop. I decided to turn off the 14. I was just barely able to see the buggy trail and managed to make it across Turtle Creek Bridge without going off the bride. The gravel on that pipe bridge was lite up just enough to see it. I guess it is time to get that 14 looked at, the other pvs-14 on the TW helmet is still working fine. Two is One.
Results/Summary: My brain still struggles a bit with remembering which way to crank the E&W on the Zeus. The 3 inch square target presented by the 2 handwarmers is actually quite large with the 3x Zeus at 100yds, so trying to find a consistent aiming point is not 100% trivial. Process I used was to place the red reticle so that I could see white from the handwarmers on all four quadrants around the center cross of the reticle. We will see how things go farther out. I try not to use breath control as when hunting we will not always be able to time our shots at the optimal moment related to our breathing.
During the previous longer distance attempts -10 was the 100yd E setting and -8 was 350yds and -2 was 500yds. But I also recall the -10 was high at 100yds, so, we might not be so different this time.
Equipment issues! 4-wheeler needs fuel cleaning and back up pvs-14 needs depot work, but goal was accomplished. Training the "fat" (i.e. the brain which is made out of fat) to continue despite issues is useful. We should allow ourselves to be taken out of our comfort zones as much as possible, safely. Driving with no aid tonight was probably the edge of safety
.
Ratdog68
LSB Official Story Teller
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I have good luck with Seafoam used regularly with my small engines. It's a good fuel stabilizer, it helps to purge water from the system, and cleans the fuel system too. 01 pint treats 20 gals. of fuel. A heavier mix of it will cause a little smoking, but hasn't harmed my small engines... just add more fresh gas to dilute the mix. NAPA, and other automotive needs stores carry it. Good stuff.
wigwamitus
LSB Active Member
Thanks!
Ok, got 4 cans of Seafoam .. and dumped half a can into the 4-wheeler and half a can into the Z-mower ... I also pumped out about 1/3 of the tank of gas out of the 4-wheeler with a new cheapo siphon thingy (had already done same with Z-mower).
The combination worked ... no spitting or cutting out from either machine.
Thanks!!!
Ok, got 4 cans of Seafoam .. and dumped half a can into the 4-wheeler and half a can into the Z-mower ... I also pumped out about 1/3 of the tank of gas out of the 4-wheeler with a new cheapo siphon thingy (had already done same with Z-mower).
The combination worked ... no spitting or cutting out from either machine.
Thanks!!!
Ratdog68
LSB Official Story Teller
LSB TURKEY BUZZARD PRESERVATION SOCIETY
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LoneStarBoars Supporter
More good use of Seafoam... for a 5 qt. oil system, dump 1/3 of a can in the crankcase (engine warm) and let it run a while. Before shutting it off, feather the throttle by hand to keep the engine running as you poor 1/3 of a can directly down the throat of the carb (major vacuum line for fuel injected), finally allowing the engine to stall out. It'll smoke heavily while doing this, no worries. Let it sit over night. In the morning, fire up the engine and warm it up. Again, it'll smoke real heavily, and you'll wonder "what the heck?" After about 10 mins. the smoke will clear, and the engine will run real smooth. This will have cleaned the fuel system and combustion chambers, to clean out carbon build up. With the engine warmed, shut it off and do your oil change. The Seafoam in the oiling system will have helped to clean the oil passages too. Seafoam in the oil system is a cleaner to be used before an oil change, I wouldn't run it in there between changes.
The pint/20 gals. ratio is great for keeping the fuel system clean, helps to burn off water in the system, and stabilizes the fuel (better than "Stabil"). I run it in the same ratio before adding oil for my mixed gas engine supply.
The pint/20 gals. ratio is great for keeping the fuel system clean, helps to burn off water in the system, and stabilizes the fuel (better than "Stabil"). I run it in the same ratio before adding oil for my mixed gas engine supply.
wigwamitus
LSB Active Member
Oh my, more stuff to spend money on! But "magic juice" might be useful ... that's why I got 4 cans ... used one ... so have 3 on the shelf.
==
2015-10-18
2100-2300
50F
10 MPH SW
Goal: 5.56(18) to 500yds.
Environment: Moderate breeze from SW pretty close to 270 degrees off the bullet path. Some clouds, and initially a moon! By the time I got to 500yds, the moon set, then the stars were MUCH more visible.
Felt cooler than it was. I'm glad I brought the balaklava, I'm not aclimited to cool/wind yet.
Equipment: 5.56(18), FLC 55gr, harris 9-12(9), Zeus 3x 75mm 640(30), .45acp, LRF, kestrel, 3x magnifier for pvs-14, pvs-14 in pouch, OC helmet with q-14. Pack with target materials, water and protein bar. 4-wheeler.
Activity: Took every thing needed so I can "detach" from using the buggy. Handwarmers, repair dots, staple gun, in the pack.
Rolled out to target area and setup the handwarmers, the rolled up to vicinity of 200yds and lased 208yds. At 100yds the Zeus was at -15 E and -25 W. AB said hold 0.2 mils up so I click E up to -14. Kestrel battery died, so had to use manual skills, est. 10 MPH from 260 degrees. AB said hold 4.5 inches. I put the center of the reticle just to the left of the handwarmer dot.
G01 - 2 rds - 200yds - Right and a little low. Precision(P) 3 inches, Accuracy(A) 3 inches.
Rolled up to vicinity of 300yds and lased 334yds. AB said hold 1.1 mils up, so I clicked up to -10 E. AB said hold left 12.3 inches. Lack of any sort of hash marks on the reticle, meant I had to try to measure 12 inches on the target, so I tried.
G02 - 2 rds - 300yds - A little left and high. P 4 inches, A 2.25 inches.
Rolled up to vicinity of 500yds and lased 518yds (twice out of 4 tries). I focused and focused, but I could only see a hint of the handwarmers. As I was preparing to shoot I heard a sound that was like someone trying to whistle but they didn't know how, so they were just blowing wind through their mouth. It was pretty close by, so I stood up and did a 360 and 30yds behind me were three deer, looking right at me. I tried to turn on the DVR, but that was the straw that broke the camel's back and they bugged out into a nearby wood line. I've had deer hang around and watch me shoot before, but I guess these ones weren't interested. I had not heard that "nada" whistling sound before, but I could see the deer's mouth moving when it made the sound again after I stood up. We will log that into the memory bank!
So back to shooting, the wind was varying from about 8 MPH to about 12MPH, but I could hear the trees rustling when it hit 12 MPH and I could hear the trees stop rustling when it died down. So I needed to hold between 30 and 36 inches. I opted for 36 as I was hearing the trees.
As to elevation, AB said to hold 2.7, which in my "Zeus math" I decided was -2 E, so I cranked that. I recall I was at -2 at 500yds a couple of weeks ago, so I was seeing some consistency here!
G03 - 2 rds 500yds - High and left. P 3 inches, A 7 inches.
Well -2 E was too high, so I cranked 03 E. And I decided the wind was being screened by some trees closer to the target, so even though I was hearing more rustling, I only held 30 inches this time (or my guess at 30 inches).
G04 - 2 rds 500yds - a little but high and left. P 1.5 inches, A .75 inches.
As I could not really see the handwarmers, actually hitting one was luck, but it does look like -3 E is the right answer. It also looks like -25 W is a good windage. IIRC, I was -23 W on the previous mount.
Results/Summary: Because I know the size of the target board, I can estimate the wind holds off of that ... for four legged critters, I would have to guess the length and hold off that ... fortunately most 4 legged critters I would be hunting would be wider than they are tall, at least on the broadside, so maybe it is possible to hold for wind without hashmarks. I just never did it before ... yeah with a rock or a bow or a hose ... but not a rifle.
So preliminary DOPE card
100yds -15 E
200yds -14 E
300yds -10 E
500yds -03 E
==
2015-10-18
2100-2300
50F
10 MPH SW
Goal: 5.56(18) to 500yds.
Environment: Moderate breeze from SW pretty close to 270 degrees off the bullet path. Some clouds, and initially a moon! By the time I got to 500yds, the moon set, then the stars were MUCH more visible.
Felt cooler than it was. I'm glad I brought the balaklava, I'm not aclimited to cool/wind yet.
Equipment: 5.56(18), FLC 55gr, harris 9-12(9), Zeus 3x 75mm 640(30), .45acp, LRF, kestrel, 3x magnifier for pvs-14, pvs-14 in pouch, OC helmet with q-14. Pack with target materials, water and protein bar. 4-wheeler.
Activity: Took every thing needed so I can "detach" from using the buggy. Handwarmers, repair dots, staple gun, in the pack.
Rolled out to target area and setup the handwarmers, the rolled up to vicinity of 200yds and lased 208yds. At 100yds the Zeus was at -15 E and -25 W. AB said hold 0.2 mils up so I click E up to -14. Kestrel battery died, so had to use manual skills, est. 10 MPH from 260 degrees. AB said hold 4.5 inches. I put the center of the reticle just to the left of the handwarmer dot.
G01 - 2 rds - 200yds - Right and a little low. Precision(P) 3 inches, Accuracy(A) 3 inches.
Rolled up to vicinity of 300yds and lased 334yds. AB said hold 1.1 mils up, so I clicked up to -10 E. AB said hold left 12.3 inches. Lack of any sort of hash marks on the reticle, meant I had to try to measure 12 inches on the target, so I tried.
G02 - 2 rds - 300yds - A little left and high. P 4 inches, A 2.25 inches.
Rolled up to vicinity of 500yds and lased 518yds (twice out of 4 tries). I focused and focused, but I could only see a hint of the handwarmers. As I was preparing to shoot I heard a sound that was like someone trying to whistle but they didn't know how, so they were just blowing wind through their mouth. It was pretty close by, so I stood up and did a 360 and 30yds behind me were three deer, looking right at me. I tried to turn on the DVR, but that was the straw that broke the camel's back and they bugged out into a nearby wood line. I've had deer hang around and watch me shoot before, but I guess these ones weren't interested. I had not heard that "nada" whistling sound before, but I could see the deer's mouth moving when it made the sound again after I stood up. We will log that into the memory bank!
So back to shooting, the wind was varying from about 8 MPH to about 12MPH, but I could hear the trees rustling when it hit 12 MPH and I could hear the trees stop rustling when it died down. So I needed to hold between 30 and 36 inches. I opted for 36 as I was hearing the trees.
As to elevation, AB said to hold 2.7, which in my "Zeus math" I decided was -2 E, so I cranked that. I recall I was at -2 at 500yds a couple of weeks ago, so I was seeing some consistency here!
G03 - 2 rds 500yds - High and left. P 3 inches, A 7 inches.
Well -2 E was too high, so I cranked 03 E. And I decided the wind was being screened by some trees closer to the target, so even though I was hearing more rustling, I only held 30 inches this time (or my guess at 30 inches).
G04 - 2 rds 500yds - a little but high and left. P 1.5 inches, A .75 inches.
As I could not really see the handwarmers, actually hitting one was luck, but it does look like -3 E is the right answer. It also looks like -25 W is a good windage. IIRC, I was -23 W on the previous mount.
Results/Summary: Because I know the size of the target board, I can estimate the wind holds off of that ... for four legged critters, I would have to guess the length and hold off that ... fortunately most 4 legged critters I would be hunting would be wider than they are tall, at least on the broadside, so maybe it is possible to hold for wind without hashmarks. I just never did it before ... yeah with a rock or a bow or a hose ... but not a rifle.
So preliminary DOPE card
100yds -15 E
200yds -14 E
300yds -10 E
500yds -03 E
wigwamitus
LSB Active Member
Oh ... I forgot to mention!
This was first time driving 4-wheeler with the q-14 when I was actually trying to DO something. I'm glad I was on familiar ground. At one point I realized I was going up a slope that was too steep and then I realized I had oriented on the wrong tree! I stopped and located the correct tree and then I was fine.
Tonight was not a great night for thermal performance. I could only see a "hint" of the handwarmers at 500yds, whereas a couple of weeks ago they were a bright dot.
And the q-14, or at least my brain, did not have confidence sometimes while driving, so I had to slow down.
The q-14 and pvs-14 both fogged up when I put the balaklava over my nose. This is normal this time of year. Time for some more anti-fog juice.
I am still unable to mount the q-14 on the dual bridge beside the pvs-14 even though this use case was why I got the q-14. Armasight has sent me several emails and phone calls telling me they are working on it ... so are a couple more people.
I have decided if q-14 won't work, I will not go the pas-29 route. In several conversations with someone who has q-14 and pas-29 and ir-patrol ... that person has been recommending ir-patrol since I first spoke to them about 2 months ago on the comparison. That person says ir-patrol "almost works" on my dual bridge (they have the same one) beside pvs-14. So if q-14 won't work for me, I guess I'll have to go ir-patrol.
Oh, based on this person's answers to questions .. it does not sound like the pas-29 has nearly the thermal detection range as the q-14 ... out to 500yds maybe but not cows at 800 except on a good night and not cows at 2,200 period. So pas-29 out, ir-patrol on deck.
Also forgot. I could see cows at 700yds to the south with the q-14 ... and horses 1,200yds to the NW with the Zeus. I could not see the horses with the q-14. This is the first time one device could see something alive the other could not.
Oh ... and on way back ... q-14 spotted a tiny critter running along right in front of the 4-wheeler. He looked like he was working so hard, I stopped to give him a rest and took a pic. Note, I could see him with the q-14. He stayed 100% still while I got off the 4-wheeler and took the pic. Then, he scrambled off.
This was first time driving 4-wheeler with the q-14 when I was actually trying to DO something. I'm glad I was on familiar ground. At one point I realized I was going up a slope that was too steep and then I realized I had oriented on the wrong tree! I stopped and located the correct tree and then I was fine.
Tonight was not a great night for thermal performance. I could only see a "hint" of the handwarmers at 500yds, whereas a couple of weeks ago they were a bright dot.
And the q-14, or at least my brain, did not have confidence sometimes while driving, so I had to slow down.
The q-14 and pvs-14 both fogged up when I put the balaklava over my nose. This is normal this time of year. Time for some more anti-fog juice.
I am still unable to mount the q-14 on the dual bridge beside the pvs-14 even though this use case was why I got the q-14. Armasight has sent me several emails and phone calls telling me they are working on it ... so are a couple more people.
I have decided if q-14 won't work, I will not go the pas-29 route. In several conversations with someone who has q-14 and pas-29 and ir-patrol ... that person has been recommending ir-patrol since I first spoke to them about 2 months ago on the comparison. That person says ir-patrol "almost works" on my dual bridge (they have the same one) beside pvs-14. So if q-14 won't work for me, I guess I'll have to go ir-patrol.
Oh, based on this person's answers to questions .. it does not sound like the pas-29 has nearly the thermal detection range as the q-14 ... out to 500yds maybe but not cows at 800 except on a good night and not cows at 2,200 period. So pas-29 out, ir-patrol on deck.
Also forgot. I could see cows at 700yds to the south with the q-14 ... and horses 1,200yds to the NW with the Zeus. I could not see the horses with the q-14. This is the first time one device could see something alive the other could not.
Oh ... and on way back ... q-14 spotted a tiny critter running along right in front of the 4-wheeler. He looked like he was working so hard, I stopped to give him a rest and took a pic. Note, I could see him with the q-14. He stayed 100% still while I got off the 4-wheeler and took the pic. Then, he scrambled off.
Ratdog68
LSB Official Story Teller
LSB TURKEY BUZZARD PRESERVATION SOCIETY
SUS VENATOR CLUB
LoneStarBoars Supporter
FYI... Chainsaw hasn't been touched for two years. Dumped out the old gas I'd forgotten to purge before storing it. Filled it with fresh gas, hit the primer button 6x, full choke-2-pulls, half choke-1-pull, barked to life and purrs like a kitten.
Normally, don't store it with gas in it, but the old stuff also had Seafoam in it. Saw is at least 8 yrs. old. I can get gas from one station in my area that has premium fuel, with NO alcohol added. I try to use only that fuel for my small engines. Even with the Seafoam, they don't like regularly available fuel with alcohol in it, run like crap with it. Most of my yard equipment is old enough that that crap wasn't the norm around here.
Normally, don't store it with gas in it, but the old stuff also had Seafoam in it. Saw is at least 8 yrs. old. I can get gas from one station in my area that has premium fuel, with NO alcohol added. I try to use only that fuel for my small engines. Even with the Seafoam, they don't like regularly available fuel with alcohol in it, run like crap with it. Most of my yard equipment is old enough that that crap wasn't the norm around here.
I have one station 35 miles away and try to schedule my stops to get fuel there. No alcohol. I use it in my cars too.