Practicing with Night Vision

[Louis Richards]

Not yet, probably another week by the time I get everything packed up in the truck. I have a tendency to bring everything but the kitchen sink when I take off on these backcountry trips. Never know when the truck may roll over and I'm stuck in a ravine for three weeks. I plan on going as far back as to not run into anybody for a few days.

That's quite the ensemble to walk around with! Think I would have to quit smoking before I could carry that much around. Plus I have all this other crap to go with it..

My bulletproof vests with rifle plates, more mags then I really should carry, 9mm, with more mags than I really should carry, water, food, knife, machete, basically all those other things which means I need to lose weight and work out!

I can carry the load for about as long as it takes to put it all on, look in the mirror and wink at myself. After that, I get depressed and realize just how out of shape and outmatched I would be if anything really happened. And then it all goes back into that "room", The one my wife just shakes her head at as she walks by, knowing that at age 54, I am still playing G.I. Joe. I emphasize the word play, because in reality that's all I really do with it.

It's where I have probably $50,000 worth of every single gadget, gun, scopes, food, supplies, and all other imaginary items that you could imagine. Without a doubt, I am fully stocked and prepared for any situation that I would encounter.

Now, if I only knew how to use half of this crap and also, would be nice having the ability to actually use half of all this crap, I could be something something

 

[Louis Richards]

Why only 18 rounds in 30 round mags? And I would think for a man like you, a thousand lumen light with all that's available out there, is a bit on the low side

Also, you never mentioned, how long do these walks last? Is this a couple hours or an all night thing?

 

[wigwamitus]

I generally use 30rd mags in the 556(14.5) and 20rd mags in the 556(18) ... and I use 10rd mags for subsonic!
The 556(18) is more of a prone/bipod kind of platform and the 20rd mags work better in that role.

In the Army I was in, we were taught to put 18rds in the mags unless we were firing a lot of rounds today.

For the 30rd mags I use 28 rds ... for the 10rd mags I use 10rds.

==

The 1000L lights I use are nice and small ... I have a 2000L but it is larger and heavier and I don't take it out to the field much. I had a 3800L but it was way too big and heavy and I gave it away. That being said I rarely use the 1000L lights ... I even rarely use the 300L lights ... I use the 3L lights a lot. I need more 3L RGBW lights !!!

 

[wigwamitus]

01 - Observation
02 - Stealth
03 - Marksmanship
04 - Processing

Those are the 4 hunting skills I'm trying to develop ... I need to work more on 04 ...

 

[wigwamitus]

... Now, if I only knew how to use half of this crap ...

Try Hunting !!!

 

[Louis Richards]

Wow, I could've swore those were 30 round mags, don't look like 20s. You must have something in the bottom of the pouch stopping them from going in on the way?

 

[wigwamitus]

haha ... I pulled them a ways out so you could SEE them!

 

[wigwamitus]

My 556 30rd mags are all tan ... here is one in the 556(14.5)

 

[Louis Richards]

You missed one of my questions? I'm just curious, as I couldn't imagine you getting dressed up for only a couple hours, this has to last all night when you go into full dress? It helps ascertain equipment weight, when you said it was too much gear, too much for two hours, too much for eight?

 

[wigwamitus]

My average outing duration for the past 2.5 years has been 2 hours ... but max has probably been 5-6 ... and min 30m ...

But the goal of last night exercise was primarily load bearing and load positioning ... is the crap in the right spots to be useful ... and is the weight too much ... I am practicing for various types of hunting ... some of which might require longer dismounted periods ... with the load I had last night ... about 40lbs ... that's is about my limit ... though I could probably train up a bit if needed. So the 2 hours was a practice session to practice carrying the gear and using some of it. An "observation/walk" as I would call it ... no plan to shoot ... just walk and observe and then judge the results of the positions of the gear and the ability to carry the weight.

When I said "too much" ... I meant ...

... this is a maximal load for me at this time in terms of weight, for an all night (12 hour) dismounted hunting kit.

 

[wigwamitus]

But I really meant the mix of weight is wrong ... I can't afford (the weight) to bring the L&S spotter ... I need to bring more food and water ... and they weigh even more!
So need to cut back on batteries too ...

 

[Louis Richards]

You opened up my eyes a lot with the 7 verses 14. But I'm just curious, because you didn't touch on it. I know you don't like the goggles, but if you HAD to go with the goggles, would you get the two tubes or one tube?

I always just thought of the PVS seven, two eyepieces one tube. But now that I'm looking, and it's a heck of a lot more money, I can go with the two tubes and two eyepieces. To me, what I call binoculars.

I wasn't really thinking correctly. When you were telling me two mono compared to the PVS 7, I wasn't thinking about TWO tubes. Just two eyepieces for some stupid reason.

So another words, I was talking apples to oranges. You were initially correct, two mono would be about the same price if I buy the two tube version. I was comparing two mono to a PVS 7 thinking it was the exact same thing it's not I would have to compare two mono to the two tube goggles and now the prices are more in line.

Amazing that I never thought about that. I was just talking two eyepieces versus one eyepiece never occurred to me about one tube versus two tube.

 

[wigwamitus]

Yes, if I had only one tube I would not want to pay for an extra eye piece and would prefer not to carry the weight of the extra eye piece as well. There are some people who like the extra eye piece to mitigate headaches ... but for me I don't get headaches wearing one 14 and leaving the other eye unaided ... I don't mind the single 14 setup at all.

If I HAD to go with goggles I would definitely get two tubes! A PVS-15 equivalent ...

Note that the AB NV MOD3 "goggle" setup I first pointed to on **** is trying to be both. I don't know if I would get this one or not - if I HAD to get a goggle ... but I would put it on the list ...

AB NightVision MOD3 Modular Goggle - L-3 OMNI VIII

Note, other vendors sell it as well and might have better pricing ... I'm not in this market, so I don't pay close attention ... but I did note that **** is selling them which is a bit surprising considering they were created by one of the "small shop" vendors.

==
But if I was just starting out ... I hope I would buy one PVS-14 first and then decide if I needed a second one ... I decided to get a second one primarily to make sure I had a good chance of having at least one working all the time. And that has paid off ... I've had to send one of them in to Aaron a couple of times ... but I had the other to keep me going. With a true one piece goggle like the PVS-15 ... you'd need a pair of them to make sure you had at least one working!
Yeah .. two PVS-15s ... that's sounding good !!! Now where did I put that lottery ticket ... ;)

 

[Louis Richards]

Hmmmmmm. Just out of curiosity, could you buy two mono's at different strengths? Say a 1X and 3X? Since they are independent eyes, is that possible that the brain can handle that and you can see two different depths? If you happen to mention that in one of your replies sorry. You're dumping so much information on me at once I'm having a hard time keeping up

 

[wigwamitus]

... could you buy two mono's at different strengths? Say a 1X and 3X ...

I would say, "Yes !!!"

Here are dual 14s on my helmet. The 14 on the left side of the helmet (our right side as we look at the helmet) has a "USGI 3x magnifier" slipped on to the focus ring.

I carry the 3x magnifier in a pouch on one of my belts, along with the LRF. The 3x magnifier is very useful for seeing farther and with more detail than the 1x inherent capability of the 14. The "slipon" capability is fast and stable enough for standing observer or even mild walking about.
For serious walking about or weapons mounting the 14 with the 3x magnifier, the 3x magnifier on screws on to the front of the objective ring.

I've never tried driving with the 3x magnifier on a 14 ... but I have walked about a bit. I would only look through one eye at a time to avoid falling over. The 3x is not so good for navigation.

The primary use case I have for the 3x magnifier is to help me range the distance to an object. I flip out the right side 14 (on the helmet) and hold the LRF up in the space between the left side 14 and the bridge. This offers stability. Then I send some pulses down range. Because the LRF uses an ir-laser I can see it with the 14, even though it is not visible to human or critter. Being able to see the dot of the laser pulses allows me to place the dot on the object I am trying to range. I observe the distance reading through the display with my unaided eye. I usually repeat the process three times and average the results.
Without the 3x magnifier I can often range out to about 300yds, with the 3x magnifier I can roughly double that, depending on conditions. But the 3x magnifier extends the distance I can range in almost all conditions. That is its primary benefit for me.
When out on an "observation/walk" I will setup somewhere and then lase the distances to tree lines or other landmarks around me, so that if I see a critter I can estimate the distance to the critter.
The 3x is also useful just for ability to see lots of detail. It is a great image, due to the large objective of the 3x letting in a lot of light.

I would get one of those - and I did! Even before I decided to get the second 14.

 

[Louis Richards]

So this may seem like another one of my foolish questions, but am I correct in my thinking? That the absolute only difference between walking around with a flashlight and night vision is so I will not be seen? Planning this Moab trip in my brain I keep thinking I need to get the night vision before I go and then I keep remembering just how many flashlights I have...

So asking myself, only reason I would REALLY need this thing, is if I cannot see whatsoever AND I am trying to sneak up on somebody... Or maybe if I was just trying to see somebody period myself, without sneak factor, but anyone within 1X range of NV would surely be within 1X range of my Fenix TK 75 4000 lm flashlight.

Well, I guess if I was trying to shoot somebody that would apply also with the laser, but that's why have my 640. Starting to realize that the reasons I would need my night vision is very limited indeed, very limited. 640 for killing. Flashlight for navigating. NV with laser same as thermal so redundancy there.

Once again, it's all about stealth... Open terrain like Moab I could probably see quite a bit with very little moonlight with just my own eyes. When I need more, I would have my flashlight. If somebody was shooting at me, I have my 640. Where does NV come in?

 

[BigRedDog]

bingo

 

[wigwamitus]

Right, if you go back and read the first two posts in this thread, I spent literally months, walking around my land at night with mostly cottonwood stick and MKIEB. If there is ANY moon, that is fine in the open pastures. I can navigate. In the woods, I used a 3 lumen rgbw light on GREEN and could navigate as if it was day time. GREEN works great in the woods. It is not as stealthy as RED, but with RED I could not navigate adequately in the woods. I could not see far enough ahead. Once I went in a big circle. That's when I changed to GREEN.

But as to seeing critters that are alive ... the thermal makes a world of difference in that regard. A light they can see might spook them away, a thermal emits only a little light to the rear, though that does need to be managed.

And when it is darker then the image intensifiers help with that.

I can function with nothing, but I can go faster with the NV, thats one way I think of it, the NV speeds me up. Without it, with just MKIEB and stick on really dark night, I have to go more slowly to avoid falling, or much more slowly in woods to avoid bumping things and avoid falling.

==
If I am working on the land at night, using the tractor, moving or loading bales or burning the fields, etc. then I turn on the white lights. No need to be stealthy then and if others are working with me, then the white lights help us see each other. This is the primary case where I use white lights at night in the field.
==
One downside of white lights for me in the summer is the bugs. White lights attract a lot of bugs and I can do without that.

Also white lights will degrade your natural night vision adaption in your MKIEB, so if you want to preserve that as much as possible, then white lights will move you in the wrong direction.

I avoid white lights if I can - but I do use them when working outside at night.

==
I have heard of a guy that hunts with a thermal spotter and a white light. He observers the critters with the thermal spotter and stalks up to them by using the thermal spotter. Once in firing position and having the rifle pulled up, he quickly turns on the white light, aims and fires, then turns off the white light. Apparently it works for him!

 

[wigwamitus]

More on white lights ...

When I first came out here to our newly purchased land in summer 2012, I did not have experience being around coyotes at night and sometimes when they were on 3 sides of me hollering and rather close in the hairs would stand up on my neck. So I would fire one round from the .45acp into the ground to encourage them to back off. Sometimes that worked.
One time I had gotten between the Turkeys and the coyotes - there had been a long "fight" between turkeys and coyotes the previous night and I decided to go investigate/intevene. I knew where the turkeys were roosting so I went to a spot within about 50yds of their roost and sat down. The "guard" turkey up in a tree made some noise but then settled down since I was not moving.
Eventually some coyotes started making communications sounds pretty close in, within 100yds (at the time I estimated 50yds but might not have been that close).
I fired one .45acp round towards a 100 foot creek bank in a direction away from both turkeys and coyotes ... a nice safe direction. The coyotes did not stop making their noises (nor did they go away) ... I was surprised. But then I took out 2000 Lumen white light aimed it in their direction and they went silent. I turned off the white light and waited another 30m and no coyote sounds.
So this was the first time I realized a white light can be a "weapon".
==
Another time I had been shooting and coyotes started making noises on three sides of me. I did not think they would attack, but they were distrupting my activity. So I took out the white light and shined it in the three directions one at a time until only one of the coyotes was still making noise. I shined the light in his/her direction and still noise ... I think he was mad at me for distrupting HIS activities!!!
But eventually the white light convinced him that a critter that can shine a white light has one trick that he didn't have so he moved on to hunt a few hundred yards away.
==
So a white light can be a "weapon" ...
==
Since then I've gotten used to coyotes being around and making their noises and I don't react to them any more except to take videos if I can. They do their thing and I do my thing.
There is one video on here from last winter where I am within 70yds of some coyotes "dancing on the bales" ... that is the name of the video. I am making noise ... and they hear me and look right at me ... but they are not impressed. One of them lays down on a bale for a nap.
I've had a coyote walk between me and my targets while shooting on 2 occasions ... once the coyote was at 60yds from me another time within 25yds. Many critters at night around here don't seem to worry about humans out at night. I guess they assume we cannot see them.
I've had deer walk towards me many times at night and get within 25yds and still be heading towards me. When they get within 25yds I whistle at them and they run off. I don't mind them getting close but I do not want to shake hands with them, so 25yds is my limit. They are very curious creatures.
I've been shooting at between 75 and 100yds with 7.62 and had them standing directly behind me (3 of them) watching me shoot. And they even bedded down half way through the session they were within 150yds of the target and at the closest 50yds from me. I have video of this on here as well.
==
Some nights around here the rabbits are so thick on the ground you can hardly walk without stepping on them. Literally there is one in about every direction about every 100yds.
==
If I was wandering around with white lights all the time, I don't think I would be seeing so many critters up so close so often.

 

[Louis Richards]

Does your flashlight have pulse or strobe? I would think that would be highly effective. All Fenix have it and I know it works WELL at blinding someone. I have no experience with coyotes, but I wouldn't think they would seriously attack you would they?

Did you always live in Kansas or just find a good land deal there? I have been searching for land, 100 acres plus, for a couple years now, just can't find that right combination I am looking for, but I'm getting older and getting less picky

I'm almost ready big red, just still pondering it all.