Practicing with Night Vision

[wigwamitus]

Looks like WAY too much fun!

I find I am NUCing at least every 5m with the q-14 these days and trying "SEA/SKY" to mitigate the "wash out when looking up" ... and that seems to be helping. I could be that I need to do this more because I am pointing the thermal at the ground at least once during the 5m while moving, so enable support arm to get short breaks. But don't discount NUCing - try it and see if it helps. Yours has a shutter right? So should be easier than q-14 to NUC, whereas I have to close butler creek cap, press 12 and 6 buttons together, open butler creek cap to NUC.

I also find I'm getting more than my fair share of head shots, but in my case, I attribute that to the critters looking at me trying to figure out what I am doing prior to the bullet arriving. They are making their head the prominent target and that gets reflected in the results.

 

[wigwamitus]

2016-01-17
2030-2230
0F
0 MPH NW

Goal: Check .308WIN bolt gun at 250yds

Environment: Light clouds to the South, but clear overhead and to the North. Half a moon high in the sky, lighting up the pastures. No wind. I wore "hot pants" (i.e. snow pants which are very sweaty unless it is cold), and three layers up top, with balaklava. I was not cold. There was no fogging, I was surprised at that. It was 4F when I first went out and -1F when I returned.

Equipment: .308WIN with xm80 FLC 149gr. EOTECH, Bushy 3x EZ, T-20. LRF, 3x 14 magnifier, kestrel. Helmet with pvs-14, ir-laser, 3l rgbw.

Activity: Had setup target earlier in the day. While rolled to a firing point in the buggy, I looked the the pond dam alignment and the pipebridge alignment. A line extended from pond dam road across the pasture to the East, is about 300yds from the target area. Similarly, a line extended from the pipebridge road across the pasture to the East, is about 200yds from the target area. When I thought I was halfway in between I turned around and stopped. Got out, measured distance to target, got 249yds. Released LRF, took a breath and tried again ... 249yds. So I guess there aren't really many unknown distances left for me in this pasture .
But, I could not see the target with the .308. In fact, with or without the T-20, I could not see more than 12yds. There is something wrong with this setup. With the 4.5x and the T-20 I could see 385yd, hecque with the moon I could see treeline at 500yds. That doesn't seem to be happening with this 3x. More testing required.

==
Since the first exercise was a bust, I did RTB and swapped rifles and started a new exericise.
==
Goal: Check 5.56(14.5) at 400yds with Apex 2x.

Environment: Same as above.

Equipmet: 5.56(14.5) with FLC 62gr. Apex, 2x, 50mm, 384(50) thermal, CQLB ir-laser, T-20. LRF, 3x 14 magnifier, kestrel. Helmet with pvs-14, ir-laser, 3l rgbw.

Activity: After swapping equipment, rolled to target to add 2x handwarmers. Then rolled to 400yds FP area (an evergreen on a ridge). Got into position and looked at target. Both target boards were visible and the handwarmers were a glowing dot.

G01 - 3rds - 400yds - 10+9+8 - avg 9 - 5.25 inch group (edit) position: prone bones only (end edit)

Summary/Results: I'm zeroed at 25yds with second zero at 385yds. At 10 degree down angle I should hold 2.7 inches up, I did not. But group center is about 3 inches and 7 o'clock low and left of the POI, so I will try to come 1 tick right and 1 tick up. I continue to be amazed by the Pular thermal image.

 

[wigwamitus]

2016-01-19
2100-2200
20F
05 MPH NNE

Goal: Zero 5.56(18) at 50yds

Environment: We had a couple of inches of snow today, combined with a warming spell, so temperatures ranged between 26 and 20 since sun up. Overcast, humid.

Equipment: 5.56(18) with 10rds of FLC 55gr and 10rds of BH 77gr SMK. Apex 75mm, 3x, 384(50), AAC Mini, Manfrotto, sling.

Activity: Would use the 55gr to get close and the 77gr to improve. Following the "zero the s%^& out of it" process. First round off paper, probably high (a guess). So I aimed at the base of the target and got round on paper at top of paper. Moved the Apex knobs, Aimed half way in between handwarmer and bottom of paper. Round in the same spot ... cranked some more ... aimed at bull, round in the same spot. Cranked some more, round at top of handwarmer to the right. Cranked left and down (actually right and up on the Apex) and high bottom of handwarmer. Fired two more 2 rd groups ... one high left one low right ... but getting on the handwarmer.
Then switched to 77gr. Fired 2 rd group, was low and centered. Cranked up one, another 2 rd group, still a bit low, cranked up one more ... 2 more rds, now centered. Ready to try 200yds next time - 200yds is the second zero, per AB.

Results/Summary: After each of the first three rounds the battery cap came off. This seems like the "achilles heel" of these units. The battery cap would seem poor on a $1 flash light. On a $5,000 thermal it seems like a clown on the supreme court. I guess I got lucky the 4th time I put the cap back on and it didn't come off again. But it shouldn't take luck. I never had a problem with loose battery cap on Zeus or Apollo.
The front lens fogged up but was usable at the distance I was shooting. After I finished shooting I scanned around, I could see cattle feeder at 400yds. I guess I will try some anti-fog juice next time. I'm getting a lot better at moving the knobs to zero, getting much less frustrating. Oh, all shots were off the Manfrotto tripod.
Except for the battery cap, I like this scope.

 

[wigwamitus]

2016-01-20
1915-2115
20F
03 MPH NW

Goals: Check Odin320 on .22lr, also side by side with PVS-14 on dual mount, also compare to Q-14 as thermal monocular.

Environment: Snow, with a light breeze, in my face when shooting . Not a light snow, not a heavy snow, just a regular snow, but loud enough on your clothes and helmet that you are aware of it ... as well as being able to see it ... which you can a light snow also.

Equipment: .22lr, with Eley subsonic hollow point, odin on MA/UWM mount (PVS-14 mount) on PSR tripod. Helmet with MA/IC dual mounnt and PVS-14 on left side. Q-14 in pocket. Later switched Odin on helmet on right side.

Activity: Preparation included setting up the Odin and learning that the display image can be shifted to 4 different 90 degree facings within the unit menu ... as well as the focus ring serving not to focus (this is fixed focus unit) but instead to allow additional +/- degree physical orientation change on top of the 90 degree software shifts. This means the display can be turned upside down and even fine tuned, when mmoving back and forth between rifle mount and helmet mount (which need to be upside down with respect to one and other in order to permit the buttons to be accessible most easily. The menu system is suprisingly easy to cycle through even the first time out. Yes the reticle movement is fairly deep in the menu system, but I was able to manipluate it more easily than the first time I worked with the pulsar system. The Odin buttons are easily to push than the Q-14 buttons. The Odin buttons are raise up a bit. Also they do not require much force. This might be bad if they get bumped by mistake, but it makes it easier to zero than the pulsar at least the first time out. Even kludgy systems can be fairly fast once you become familiar with them. Life is full of trade-offs! But I don't exoect this to be a 500yd scope . Placement of the MA/UWN mount ring on the Odin required three attempts. The realization that there was so much flexility in the radial orientation of the unit helped enable the final successful attempt. The MA/UWM uses a "spear" system, so at least once you are used to it. You can get it in the base without looking fairly easily. But I use thumb and other figure to help orient the approach to the base to keep things "level".

Zeroing: So I spent 19 rounds down range zeroing, but finally got 3 consequtive rounds on the handwarmer at 30yds. The snow got on the ammo and cold water and Eley ammo don't usually go well together, so I had 3 failure to cycles and lost 3 rds. All rounds were on paper, but there was some adjustment to getting used to how to tell how much to move the reticle. That's what you do, you move the reticle up, down, left, right with the buttons and sub-menus ... it is not much different from the pulsar really, but the pulsar will be faster in the long run because it is driven off one knob that both rotates and gets pushed, so a faster system.

Moving and Seeing: Then I put the .22lr away and got out the q-14 and put the Odin on the MA/IC because a pvs-14. After some walking around and experimenting, I put the Odin on the Sepia pallet to reduce the brightness and get a better balance between the pvs-14 brightness and the Odin brightness. That worked well, when one device had the advantage over the other, I would see with the better device. Like I could see some lights in the distance with the pvs-14 but not with the thermal, but I saw them. I could see a rabbit in the woods with the thermal, but not with the pvs-14. I flipped out the Odin and used the q-14 for a while. Even turning down the brightness it was grainier. I nuc'd it and it got better, but was still more washed out, especially when looking up at trees. Due to the conditions I couldn't see that far. But I went to a spot where I could see a cattle feeder at 400yds normally. I looked for it. I moved and looked and moved and looked, with all three devices. Finally the PVS-14 could see a lump at the top of the ridge. Then, knowing it was there, the Odin could see it and also the Q-14. But I had been moving and scanning with all three. Anyway, they could all see it eventually at about 385yds. But that was as far as I could see. The Q-14 was grainer as it usually is, the Odin was fuzzier. But net/net I would rate the images as about equal in terms of ability to see what is there. The PVS-14 could see the terrain better, but the thermals could see the critters better. No big surprise.

Summary Results: Having the Odin hands free on the helmet, able to complement the PVS-14 is a dream come true. It is great. If the Q-14 could do that, I wouldn't be writing this.

As weapons sites, based on what I done with them, I would rate them about the same. The Odin has more reticles and reticle colors and that is a plus, the Q-14 only has one black reticle. I do have around 100 rats/mice controled by the Q-14 over the past 3 months and 0 with the Odin, so there is that. The q-14 reticle positions have numbers, so you can remember them. This allows a DOPE card of sorts to be created. And that was useful with the Zeus, but for shooting short distances, I zero and that is that. I'm holding inches up or down as required by the distance. No reticle hash marks used. Just guess of inches of hold based on guess of distance.

As helmet mounted thermals, the Odin wins, because it is a PVS-14 form factor and the Q-14 is a MUM-14 form factor and all my mounts are PVS-14 mounts, I have no MUM-14 mounts.

As handheld monocular, I would rate them about the same. The Odin has more pallets, like rain which is occasionally useful.

As just device ease of use. The Odin has easier buttons to use. It remains to be seen if they are a liability also. The Odin's ability to maniplulate rotation is an advantage both as a weapons monunt (to get the reticle level) and as a helmet mount (to get the displayed oriented level). The Q-14 has an extended battery pack and that might be useful, but I don't have that. The battery indicator in the Odin is off, it shows new batteries as half used, but the display doesn't move. So, the Odin battery indicator is closer to an "on/off" kind of thing, I think.
NUC'ing is the same for both, but the buttons are easier to push on the Odin.

 

[wigwamitus]

Further impressions of walking around with PVS-14 and Odin on helmet side by side last night:

It is not perfect. But then, I didn't expect it to be. Sometimes the images "merge" exactly, most of the time they are close. But I've checked my MKIEB and they don't merge exactly either, they are close . I presume the dominant eye and/or other brain circuits compensate in the case of the MKIEB.

At one point I looked at our safety light as both the PVS-14 and Thermal could see it clearly. If I looked right at it, the images merged exactly, if I looked to the left or right or lower or higher the images diverged a bit. That was interesting, I hadn't expected that (hence I mention it).

I also just held my hand up in front of me. Sometimes the images merged exactly, sometimes they were a bit off. Not sure what the differences were in those cases.

We had snow on the ground last night, so the lights from our various buildings lit up the snow and the PVS-14 could see very well. So when the thermal didn't have much to see, the PVS-14 image seemed to dominate ... and when I went into our apple orchard ... away from the buildings ... under tree cover ... where it is much darker, the thermal seemed to dominate. These dominating changes were without me doing anything as far as I know.

Under other conditions I can close one eye or the other to be sure of what I am seeing. I did see a rabbit with the thermal that the PVS-14 could not see ... and the PVS-14 could see undulations in the snow that the thermal could not see .. dips in the ground underneath, etc.

One question that isn't answered yet, is will I be able to detect/identify something with thermal and then engage with the PVS-14 and an ir-laser? With or without ir-illuminator? We will certainly be checking that out!

Last night I ran the Odin on "Sepia" which reduced the brightness down to a level where it was not clashing with the PVS-14. This seems to minimize headaches for me. Last year I walked around a lot holding the Apollo 42mm up to my right eye with the PVS-14 on the left eye and I did get headaches ... but they were minimized if I used Sepia or "red hot" pallets. I also had the Q-14 with me and could compare what the Q-14 on white hot could see, versus what the Odin on Sepia could see and I could not tell the difference in terms of what could be seen or identified.

Much more testing/practice will be needed, but after the first night I am amazed that it works as well as it does. I'll call it PMF (Poor Man's Fusion) as the "Fusion" is happening in the brain, rather than in the device. But this sort of fusion has some advantages in that you can control which device you are using with your eyes (no hands required) and you can separate the devices and hand one to another team member if needed ... and the cost is about half as much as the PSQ-20 (comparing cost of one good PVS-14 and one Odin). The cost is about 33% lower than the cost of the PAS-29/COTI (comparing cost of Odin to PAS-29).

 

[wigwamitus]

2016-01-23
2000-2100
20F
05 MPH NW

Goal: Check 5.56(18) at 200yds.

Environment: Cool and overcast all day, no melting, snow max 8 inches in some low lying drifts, min 2 inches on rocky high ground.

Equipment: 5.56(18) BH77gr SMK, sling, manfrotto, Pulsar 3x, 75mm, 384(50), PVS-14 on left side of helmet, Odin on right side, LRF on belt pouch (Kestrel and 14 3x on belt pouches not used) ... 4-wheeler.

Activity: Rolled out to target and patched previous holes and setup new handwarmers. Then rolled to 200yd FP and confirmed with LRF (198). Fired 3 x 5rd groups:

G01 - 5rds - 200yds, high and left. Made adjustments.

G02 - 5rds - 200yds, less high and less left. Made adjustments.

G03 - 5rds - 200yds, centered, 2 of 3 on the 3x3 inch handwarmer mass others to the left 1-2 inches.

Results/Summary: Neither the pulsar nor the Odin were having a good thermal performance night. With all the snow, it was pretty much a "sea of gray" out there. Also some fogging on front and rear lenses. I did not let the rifle/scope sit in the garage for 30m before going out to acclimate. Lesson relearned for the 83rd time. I did use anti-fog juice on all the rear (occular) surfaces. While rolling out I had lo-pro eye-pro on face under the 14 and odin and there was a bit of fogging but it did not reach disruptive levels. With the snow on the ground any ambient light at all is magnified tremendously and really no need for NV to navigate in the pastures. In fact, in these conditions NV(i2) is way better option for most purposes than thermal. This night proved that once again, without a doubt! The handwarmers looked like a glowing dot in a sea of grey with the thermals. As to the results, will try one more time tonight. The adjustments on this scope, might not allow perfect zeroing, we will see. But we are well inside the ball park now and just might have to remember to hold one inch right for each 100yds. The Apex is 100% easy to operate with gloves on both hands. This aspect is better than Zeus, Apollo, Q-14 whose bottons are tough to operate with gloves (at least for these olde hands). The Odin buttons are also easy to operate with gloves. I adjusted the brightness and contrast and tried to optimize the image. If there had been a critter that was alive within LOS (and within some max distance not known yet to me) I would've detected it. I saw coyote tracks in the usual places but no coyotes. But I would not have been able to drive with just the odin tonight, not for long anyway, the crash would've come quickly.

 

[wigwamitus]

Went out last night to polish zero on 5.56(14.5) ... one 10rd group at 100yds ... hold down 7 inches ... standing off stick ... 2 rds hit the handwarmer, center of group 1 inch left.
So right now the 5.56(18) with the Apex 3x is one inch right and the 5.56(14.5) with the Apex 2x is 1 inch left. Tonight will try to get them dead on.

Changed batteries in the field for the Apex 2x and the battery cap popped off three times until I got lucky. So both the 3x and the 2x have this same problem. Once everyone gets back from SHOT and settled in I'd like to try to make sure we can get the word over to Lithuania that these battery caps need some work!

 

[kryptekman]

Temp: 15F
Time: 1:00pm

Found a moose kill today out wandering the woods, I think this moose died naturally or was shot and then froze into the snow and was just recently un covered and taken apart by predators. There is a large piece of meat frozen into the snow, and we have not had any significant snow in over a few months now so it must have been before then. Anyways, I included a picture, there is tons of Predator scat around the area, very large. Must be coyote or possibly Wolf, but i have not heard of wolves near Fairbanks. Im not sure how big a wolverine poop is but this could be wolverine too, i did see one mountain biking in this general location last summer.

I was able to record another squirrel kill for you guys, sorry its not that exciting!

I did put up my trail camera on the kill site, so hopefully we can catch some images of the predators within the next week.

 

[FrankT]

"Im not sure how big a wolverine poop is but this could be wolverine too, i did see one mountain biking in this general location last summer."

I am not sure I have ever seen a wolverine riding a bike of any kind, must have been pretty neat to see!

 

[wigwamitus]

Especially one MOUNTAIN biking !!! We must have video or trail cam of that please !!!

 

[FrankT]

That moose fed a lot of wildlife, glad it did not go to waste

 

[kryptekman]

Especially one MOUNTAIN biking !!! We must have video or trail cam of that please !!!

close enough lol

 

[FrankT]

I love it, what a guy a story and pics too!! Thanks for the laugh!!

 

[Curly Shuffle]

We don't need no stinking Badgers!!!! Video was way cool. Thanks for posting. I have mine set at black so in the neighborhood I have black squirrels!! They are cool. Good goin! BANG BANG!!

 

[kryptekman]

Spotted a Moose today walking around, he/she was bedded down on a ridge above me about 50yards out, in very thick timber.

Im wondering if this is the first moose to be seen in thermal, besides our mosquito friend soon here to arrive

 

[Curly Shuffle]

WAY COOL VIDEO!!! Loved the sound effects!!

 

[FrankT]

That is a Predator right? Mine was a lot sharper than that and no blobs for animals, I would call them about that. This is high humidity and the hogs are 150 yds away

 

[kryptekman]

That is a Predator right? Mine was a lot sharper than that and no blobs for animals, I would call them about that. This is high humidity and the hogs are 150 yds away

I can see your concern, but i honestly believe because I am in conditions always near 0 degrees that the animals show very little detail at that temperature. The animals cores are warm, 90F~ish but the outside hairs are going to be very close to the same as the relative air temperature. Even a large moose will be on the outside very close to the ambient air when its this cold.

 

[FrankT]

Yeah I have NO experience at 0 and not going to try...thanks for the explanation.

 

[kryptekman]

Yeah I have NO experience at 0 and not going to try...thanks for the explanation.

It does sound theoretically possible right? Like i dont mean to negate your worries, but I honestly am kinda dissapointed in the lack of detail most times, but I figure I can dispell this temp theory as we start spring and start to climb above 32F in a few weeks.

I just imagined that animals here have adapted to with-hold their body heat, letting the surface area get cold but the many layers of hair under neath would eventually trap any heat from being drawn out.

 

[FrankT]

you may be right, and Spring should be able to tell you. I think it is a good and valid theory