Weapon Scopes: Night Vision vs Thermal

[YellowHammer]

First off, I've really been enjoying your forum. I'm born & raised in Alabama but spent a few years in El Paso. I've never shot a hog (they haven't made it to my part of the state yet, but are a couple of counties South) nor hunted at night, but I enjoy getting out with gen3's and shooting via IR laser. Some farmers have offered to let me shoot their coyotes but I'm waiting for them to get motivated enough to get a proper nuisance permit first. I'm not going to take $10,000 worth of gear out to have it confiscated by the game warden due to lack of a permit.

I have a Gen3 PVS-7, slip on X3 magnifier, good helmet, good IR laser (rifle), and good IR laser (pistol), I use them a lot, and plan on keeping them. I planned to wear the PVS-7 for navigation/positive ID and scan/shoot with a thermal scope.

However, since my first thermal (640 Zeus) is getting some warranty work I've been rethinking my night shooting strategy. Would I be better off with a Gen3 NVG scope (shooting) and a 336 thermal monocular (scanning) instead of a single dedicated 640 rifle scope? Or has the advent of semi-affordable thermal scopes eliminated the point of having a top shelf gen3 weapon scope?

Pro's (for the 3rd gen NVG scope):
-Generally cheaper
-More mature technology (more likely to retain value over time)
-Clearer image/easier to positive ID
-Doesn't lose resolution when magnified

Pro's (for thermal):
-24 hr use (day/night)
-Quicker target acquisition
-More recoil resilient
-Video out capable (most models)
-Remembers zero's for different rifles (some models)

Con's for NVG scope:
-Recoil sensitive
-Can only be used at night (maybe at twilight with manual gain)
-Loses clarity past ~150 yards (in my experience, I used to shoot in an old rock quarry so things may be different in open pastures)
-External IR illuminators are faintly visible to the eye at certain angles
-Can't see through cover (like thermals can)

Con's for thermal:
-Cost
-Cost (stated twice for emphasis)
Will lose it's value as newer stuff comes out
?
?

I'm interested to hear what the experienced folks here think.

 

[rgilbert]

I never thought I would use a thermal until I finally got to test the MKII with the 12 micron core. I still use my NV to navigate, but I shoot with the thermal. I say get your hands on as many thermal units to test, or watch the testing done here. Night time hunting can be expensive, but here in Texas we have a lot of chances to do so. I'm still waiting to test other brands, but the IR Hunter MKII is what I've been using.

 

[keatonskidmore]

In my opinion it is worth it to have thermal for your weapon sight for a few reasons. One main reason is rapid target acquisition, and target ID (in thermal you can tell between deer, hog, cow, rabbit, mice, etc. fairly easily), still being able to see your target when it gets into tall grass or brush, and being able to spot things much further.
To me a good setup for night hunting is a good thermal weapon sight and a good NVG for navigating and stalking.

 

[keatonskidmore]

And to me it seems that NVG cost is declining very fast. I think thermals have better resale value than NVGs do.

 

[FrankT]

A thermal sight and a separate monocular is what I think is the best, the only reason for the PVS 14 is to look while driving thru a windshield which is for 3 out of 100 hunters. Prices for the thermals will really hit bottom with all the advanced units coming out like the armasight pro's...next 2-3 years the 8K thermals from last year will be 2K

 

[YellowHammer]

A thermal sight and a separate monocular is what I think is the best, the only reason for the PVS 14 is to look while driving thru a windshield which is for 3 out of 100 hunters. Prices for the thermals will really hit bottom with all the advanced units coming out like the armasight pro's...next 2-3 years the 8K thermals from last year will be 2K

I agree, I'm wondering what a $6500 thermal device will be worth in 3 years. It seems, to me, that night vision holds it's value pretty well...night vision technology is largely the same that it was 10 years ago.

 

[TEXASLAWMAN]

I prefer shooting with thermal for hunting situations. Thermal is coming down in price but night vision has stagnated and not dropped in a while.

 

[hdfireman]

I think that both are great tools and it all depends on the way you are hunting. Head mounted NV is very useful if you are doing a lot of navigating, walking or driving. Thermal is great for spotting and fast target acquisition. Even though thermal has come a long way I still think NV is much better for positive ID. I know some are going to say that you can ID with thermal but can you positively say that that dog is a coyote or someones pet?? That being said with today's thermal technology you can ID if it's a dog, pig or deer.

I think you did right with the head mounted NV first then went to a thermal for a weapon sight and that's the way I hunt. When it comes to long range shooting at night I still like the long range NV devices.

Thermal has continued to get better and come down in price because of advances in technology. I don't see NV doing the same because of the manufacturing process of the image intensifier tubes.

 

[TEXASLAWMAN]

I think that both are great tools and it all depends on the way you are hunting. Head mounted NV is very useful if you are doing a lot of navigating, walking or driving. Thermal is great for spotting and fast target acquisition. Even though thermal has come a long way I still think NV is much better for positive ID. I know some are going to say that you can ID with thermal but can you positively say that that dog is a coyote or someones pet?? That being said with today's thermal technology you can ID if it's a dog, pig or deer.

I think you did right with the head mounted NV first then went to a thermal for a weapon sight and that's the way I hunt. When it comes to long range shooting at night I still like the long range NV devices.

Thermal has continued to get better and come down in price because of advances in technology. I don't see NV doing the same because of the manufacturing process of the image intensifier tubes.

If you have been hunting long enough you should be able to tell a dog from a coyote just by movement alone in my opinion.

 

[Ratdog68]

If you have been hunting long enough you should be able to tell a dog from a coyote just by movement alone in my opinion.

Indeed...

 

[hdfireman]

I can and you can but not everyone has hunted with it! I am putting the info out there for the people that are just getting into thermal. With todays technology and/or hunting experience targets can be ID'd with thermal but it still can not positively ID targets like NV does.

 

[Terry]

I agree guys with lots of hunting experience can ID critters just off of shape and the way it moves. New hunters could get in real trouble trying to do that. A thermal Mono and NV scope together is a wicked combo for just about everything. I have both and use both NV/thermal scopes but since getting into 640 thermal scopes I use them the most now.