Black Friday ciber Monday.

[djones]

jerm,

welcome to the forum. couple things... don't believe anything rattlesnake or FrankinT say. hell i'd rather believe scrambler than either of them.

you look like you would be handy to have in the middle of a herd of pigs. one thing tho.. don't drop to the ground our you cud get trampled. better to run or just hide behind me.

not familiar with 3 gun, but if i couldn't kill them with a rifle or shotgun, i'd climp a pivot and wait them out. pretty sure if i took up 3 gun though, i'd be faster.

 

[JeremyV]

Doesn't armasight make a remote view finder that is in a package like a PVS-14 so that its helmet mountable? Something you may be interested in is having a bridge mount with your PVS-14 on your weak eye and the thermal view finder for you scope on your strong eye. That way you don't have to have a constant cheek weld to be scanning for hidden targets.

Yes I believe they make a wired and a wireless version. Only issue I have is I need to be able to switch from nightvision to thermal to white light very quickly also I need the pvs14 on my right eye for work with my pistol. I have way to many reps with my pistol to try and shoot it with my off eye would make me very slow.

That eye pice would be a lot of fun for shooting around corners and stuff. I'm sure there are a lot of great applications for it. Somehow I doubt they are just giving them away though lol.

Thanks for welcoming me to the forum seems like an awesome group of individuals!

 

[JPK]

Better make sure the auto off/auto on feature works on your PVS 14 mount. Talk about unstealthy... Or slow manually turning it off or on before raising it or after lowering it.

If I wear a helmet and NV I use duals with no auto off feature, but absolute speed isn't critical. The dual mount I use, a Mod Armory, allows either side to swing out of the way, which is enough for scanning or shooting in a pinch. Like the glow on the face when using a thermal or NV, the glow off my helmet when one or both PVS 14s are swing to the sides doesn't seem to bother critters.

JPK

 

[JeremyV]

Better make sure the auto off/auto on feature works on your PVS 14 mount. Talk about unstealthy... Or slow manually turning it off or on before raising it or after lowering it.

If I wear a helmet and NV I use duals with no auto off feature, but absolute speed isn't critical. The dual mount I use, a Mod Armory, allows either side to swing out of the way, which is enough for scanning or shooting in a pinch. Like the glow on the face when using a thermal or NV, the glow off my helmet when one or both PVS 14s are swing to the sides doesn't seem to bother critters.

JPK

My auto off definitely works that was an absolute necessity! I got the **** L3 tube that's autogated as well.
I've also noticed that it's best to actually let your eye adjust to the dark before using the monocular that way you can run it with less gain and have a dimmer light. When I first got it I had it cranked way up but it's more grainy that way as well.

 

[JPK]

I am a high gain guy. I have found the brighter the view the more critters I can pick out of the green sea. (And that equals maybe 10% of the critter you will pick out with thermal.) Aholes would be no different. For just navigation, lower gain works fine though.

I think it would be a lot easier to pick critters (or bad guys) out of the view through a filmless "Chrome" tube. And that is my primary night hunting bud's experience. My tubes are Pinnacle with SNR high 28s, but I think after looking though some white phosphor tubes that they really, really offer advantages because of the generally better LPI and contrast. And they generally have really high SNR, and then add the ~19% advantage due to the lack of a film which is not accounted for in a spec sheet.

I would encourage you to turn the gain up and give it a try in the wild. The thermal, even with brightness turned way down, ruins your night vision anyway.

Btw, you will really want a thermal spotter. NV vs thermal, you will see maybe 10% of critters out there with NV compared to thermal. Every NV advocate will argue this point, but it is true. I have both and was not biased one way or the other when I first had both. NV sucks for finding live bodies compared to thermal. Most NV advocates will also tell you that you can't navigate with thermal, and that is untrue, though NV is better for that sole purpose. They will also tell you that target ID is easier and more sure with NV vs thermal, and that is generally false also. I use my NV less and less as time goes by. In fact, the rifle set ups I described are based on the fact that I find NV less and less useful helmet mounted and more useful mounted as a "scope" for a third and fourth rifle.

Food for thought,

JPK

 

[JeremyV]

I am a high gain guy. I have found the brighter the view the more critters I can pick out of the green sea. (And that equals maybe 10% of the critter you will pick out with thermal.) Aholes would be no different. For just navigation, lower gain works fine though.

I think it would be a lot easier to pick critters (or bad guys) out of the view through a filmless "Chrome" tube. And that is my primary night hunting bud's experience. My tubes are Pinnacle with SNR high 28s, but I think after looking though some white phosphor tubes that they really, really offer advantages because of the generally better LPI and contrast. And they generally have really high SNR, and then add the ~19% advantage due to the lack of a film which is not accounted for in a spec sheet.

I would encourage you to turn the gain up and give it a try in the wild. The thermal, even with brightness turned way down, ruins your night vision anyway.

Btw, you will really want a thermal spotter. NV vs thermal, you will see maybe 10% of critters out there with NV compared to thermal. Every NV advocate will argue this point, but it is true. I have both and was not biased one way or the other when I first had both. NV sucks for finding live bodies compared to thermal. Most NV advocates will also tell you that you can't navigate with thermal, and that is untrue, though NV is better for that sole purpose. They will also tell you that target ID is easier and more sure with NV vs thermal, and that is generally false also. I use my NV less and less as time goes by. In fact, the rifle set ups I described are based on the fact that I find NV less and less useful helmet mounted and more useful mounted as a "scope" for a third and fourth rifle.

Food for thought,

JPK

So what I was saying about the gain was not to have a dark image but rather let your eyes adjust so that when you have it turned up to where it looks like daylight it's at a lower gain then if your eyes were not adjusted at all. A dark view is definitely not good for spotting things that's for sure. If I wait 45minutes in the dark before using my nightvision then I use lower gain and get better image quality.

As far as the thermal spotter goes I'm on the same page as you however my wallet might not be.

As far as helmet mounted nightvision I use it for navigation and so that I can engage targets with pistol or rifle very quickly. For pure hunting I can see that it might be more useful on the gun. In combat up close you use lasers on both pistol and rifle and helmet mounted pvs14 and your good to go. On farther out stuff it's more nightvision and thermal on the gun.

So Im about to start a new thread asking one of the questions you answered and that ushow many of you chose thermal viewer and nightvision scope vs nightvision viewer and thermal scope. Seems like there are some different thoughts on this.

 

[JPK]

Of all companies, Leopold is coming out with a thermal spotter wth 200 resolution. My 19 A on 2x gives a bit less resolution. Fine for spotting, not as bad as you might suspect for ID. I have one reserved for a Christmas gift for my 16yr old son. I will report on how it works. MSRP = $900ish, iirc, street price on line will probably be $600ish after a couple of months on the market. So, spot it with the cheap spotter, ID it with the higher resolution scope.

Try turning up the gain, you will see more critters. If your experience is different than mine, turn it back down.

I believe "everyone" here has started with the kit they could afford and gravitated to, at least those who can afford different options, using a thermal spotter, thermal scope and a PVS 14, maybe two, or PVS 15's, etc for navigation. That is the optimal set up. You will want to get there over time.

Anyone who says a NV spotter or scope outperform thermal for hunting is lying or kidding themselves. There is damned good reason the military is going alll in on thermal. **** and lapdog SkyPUp lead the list of the full of s--t. Victor has so much invested in NV he just doesn't give the truth wrt thermal. I have some damning and interesting PM's from arfcom from Victor saved, in which he craps all over affordable thermal and even NV he is now pimping through Night Goggles.

But, if I were forced to limit options because of budget, the first item I would buy is a thermal spotter. I won't even go into my deer stands (legal 1/2 hour before to 1/2hour after set) without one. Second would be a PVS14 with QD helmet/weapons mounts. Third would be a thermal scope.

Some guys here and elsewhere bring up "long range" even up to 500+ yards at night. Dumb, IMO, since with the cover of darkness a little walking puts you close. Close is 40-50yds. But that is hunting. Fwiw, the military is switching to thermal, and there are thermal clip ons that permit 1,000yd plus shooting.

I find shooting a rifle with a laser and a pair of PVS 14s to be a clusterfuck. I just cannot get comfortable shooting a rifle without a proper cheek weld. I have spent decades and a **** ton of $'s getting shotgun stocks and rifle optics, etc, mounted to ensure a proper cheek weld, and for shotgun hunting a consistent mount and cheek weld is everything since there are no sights. So I end up in the quick opportunity trying to properly mount a rifle to achieve the cheek weld I am so accustomed to to shoot a rifle with helmet mounted NV and a laser. Does not work! On the other hand, after working for a couple of decades on shogun and rifle mount, when I mount a rifle (with proper low mag scope) or shotgun quickly, I am ready to shoot. Nothing could be quicker for me given the "auto mount" developed with a lot of practice over the years. But I do have IR laser grips on a SIG P226 with a 22lr kit installed, with a GM-22 suppressor or Spectre II. That works!

(ETA: Some of the s--t Victor has accused TLM (singularly distinguished hog killing machine and our host) of is just disgusting.)

JPK

 

[JeremyV]

I agree with a lot of what your saying however with some training lasers and gen3 can be extremely fast. The trouble with a rifle mounted gen3 scope vs a helmet mounted monocular is if you are moving and shooting your blind when Your going to your weapon.

Hunting that down time probably is not a big deal in fact you shouldn't be moving and shooting at all. Different strokes for different folks.

As far as I can tell my ideal setup will be IR light and laser with white light visible laser thermal scope 45 degree offset RMR and helmet mounted pvs14 and a thermal spotter. This setup gives me tons of options depending on the situation. With a little training the 45degree red dot is extremely fast and accurate.

When shooting three gun I use the offset sights for close shots so I don't have to change the zoom on my scope. The red dot would be for day shooting out to about 150 yards.

 

[JPK]

I absolutely believe that with training the laser and helmet mounted NV can be quick and accurate. One of my night hunting buds was Army, now Reserves, and did a couple of tours in Iraq and Afghanistan and that was a setup they trained with.

(As a humorous aside, he will not wear a helmet or NV hunting now. And not even a Crye Nightcap. He says if he never sees the green hue of Gen3 again he will die happy.)

For me, the idea of undoing decades of work on gun and rifle mount to use a rifle mounted laser and helmet mounted NV is counter productive.

One reason guys advocate using the weak eye for a PVS14 is so that whatever scope they have on the rifle, thermal or NV, they aren't blind and can mount and shoot. Takes a little getting used to to not smack the PVS 14 on the scope, but can be done. I shoot long guns lefty because of a childhood injury, handguns righty. Even if I'm wearing NV I prefer to scan with my left eye. And you correctly point out that moving and shooting isn't something that is a good idea when hunting at night especially with buds.

I have watched YouTube video of guys using the scope/offset red dot set up, and it can be amazing. Quick, smooth transitions are no issue for the guys who put the time in.

In your cool video of the night pistol shooting I noticed you shoot pistols lefty. Long guns lefty too? Btw, I got a hoot out of the video. I couldn't shoot that quickly that accurately in broad daylight.

JPK

 

[JeremyV]

I absolutely believe that with training the laser and helmet mounted NV can be quick and accurate. One of my night hunting buds was Army, now Reserves, and did a couple of tours in Iraq and Afghanistan and that was a setup they trained with.

(As a humorous aside, he will not wear a helmet or NV hunting now. And not even a Crye Nightcap. He says if he never sees the green hue of Gen3 again he will die happy.)

For me, the idea of undoing decades of work on gun and rifle mount to use a rifle mounted laser and helmet mounted NV is counter productive.

One reason guys advocate using the weak eye for a PVS14 is so that whatever scope they have on the rifle, thermal or NV, they aren't blind and can mount and shoot. Takes a little getting used to to not smack the PVS 14 on the scope, but can be done. I shoot long guns lefty because of a childhood injury, handguns righty. Even if I'm wearing NV I prefer to scan with my left eye. And you correctly point out that moving and shooting isn't something that is a good idea when hunting at night especially with buds.

I have watched YouTube video of guys using the scope/offset red dot set up, and it can be amazing. Quick, smooth transitions are no issue for the guys who put the time in.

In your cool video of the night pistol shooting I noticed you shoot pistols lefty. Long guns lefty too? Btw, I got a hoot out of the video. I couldn't shoot that quickly that accurately in broad daylight.

JPK

Haha your messed up just like me. I shoot pistol left And rifle right handed I'm left handed bit as a child shooting semiautomatic rifles my parent's didn't want me to be eating brass shooting left handed so made me shoot right. For competition I learned to shoot both quite well but definitely shoot better left with pistol and right with rifle. As far as the off eye pvs14 goes I can't go that route cause then my pistol index is off and will take way too long to find the sights. If I used a pistol laser it would probably work but I'm using an rmr.
I shoot competition all the time and know exactly what your saying about your index and mounting the rifle however shooting with the laser is just another skill it doesn't take away from your from you can switch back and forth without losing any ground.

Laser in the day is definitely slower then sights of any kind but at night with helmet it's faster in my opinion.
I'll be making some more videos and demonstrate what I'm trying to explain.

 

[JPK]

Iirc from you video, you wear the PVS 14 over your left eye, right? So, you could mount a rifle righty to shoot without rotating the PVS 14. Would take a little practice to avoid smacking the scope with the PVS 14, but it is not difficult, especially with a short AR stock, where you mount more square.

I'm ok with a handgun lefty, definitely a little slow, but not inaccurate. No hope righty with a long gun. I might be able to get a set place shot off out of a deer stand with a rail, but that's it.

I have a red laser and white light on my bedside pistol. But I don't find the laser that helpful.

 

[JeremyV]

Iirc from you video, you wear the PVS 14 over your left eye, right? So, you could mount a rifle righty to shoot without rotating the PVS 14. Would take a little practice to avoid smacking the scope with the PVS 14, but it is not difficult, especially with a short AR stock, where you mount more square.

I'm ok with a handgun lefty, definitely a little slow, but not inaccurate. No hope righty with a long gun. I might be able to get a set place shot off out of a deer stand with a rail, but that's it.

I have a red laser and white light on my bedside pistol. But I don't find the laser that helpful.

No I have my pvs14 on my right eye that's my dominant eye. I shoot left hand right eye for pistol and right hand right eye for rifle. I know I'm all mixed up. I tried the pvs14 on my left eye and couldn't find my dot on my. Rmr to save my life... Ok I would find it but it took way too long.

 

[JPK]

Ha! You may be even more messed up than me. I am mildly right eye dominant and use right eye for pistols, but left eye for long guns. With a shotgun every so often I will have a string of a couple of pitiful misses and it will occur to me that I'm using my right eye. But it doesn't happen often, thankfully. I do a fair bit of shotgun hunting, primarily for ducks and geese.

Irons or any optic on a long gun and I just don't have any switch eye issues.

When I shoot pistol left hand, which is only often enough to prove I can still do it, I use left eye. But I have tried left hand right eye and right hand left eye, need to squint, but can get it done.

My son is right eye, right hand. That means I have two of everything bolt rifle and shotgun wise. Expensive pita! My ARs are right handed, which doesn't cause me trouble. Non are set up I ambi, and the only control I don't find natural is the bolt release.