Clip-on heights for Apollo / CO-MR and CO-X

[Jeff]

All:

I am looking at (possibly) adding one of the Armasight Clip-on sights to the collection next Spring and have a few questions:

All of these are concerning the optic centerline above the pic rail for the following models:

Apollo Pro 50mm 640
Apollo Pro 100mm 640

CO-MR Gen 3
CO-X Gen 3

I did find the specs for the CO-X which is listed at 1.50". That would work perfectly with the Larue SPR 1.5 (LT-104). I would like a confirmation measurement if anyone is running that unit please. Additional info also shows the deviation (for NV, not thermal) can be no more than 3mm from centerline.

Armasight lists 1.57" (40mm) as the specs for all of the Apollo units however I don't see how that could be correct as (100mm / 2) = 50mm which would put the object 10mm into the rail!

If anyone happens to be running these units I would greatly appreciate a quick measurement of the optic centerline to the top of the rail. I know I am being "anal" about this but I would like the day optic to be as centered as possible with the clip-on.

Question two on the Apollo... Placement of the unit objective is pretty close to the gas block on an AR. Does the heat from the gas block when out screwing around effect the image? I am not a "spray and pray" guy however we do shoot steel enough to get the gas block pretty warmed up! If I go clip-on instead of dedicated it will go on a 300 Blackout with either a Leupold 1.5-5 or one of the ACOG units w/300 BO reticle.

One last question on clip-ons in general... Are there any issues with the scope, assuming good quality, focusing on the image that is only an inch away? Thermal of course it has to focus on the SVGA screen. With glass does it focus on the ocular lens or through the lens to the target?

I picked up the Zeus 3 640 x 75mm a few months ago and love it. None of my buddies here have NV of any flavor so I need to "share" out the Zeus 3. My previous experience has been with the D740/760 line and one Raptor as well as a couple PVS-14s. Thermal seems to be the future however I do miss the clarity of a good Pinnacle tube.



Thank you in advance!

Jeff in Oly

 

[BigRedDog]

The focal length and lens diameter are not the same thing.

I will call factory and see if I can get a measurement verification for you.

Where is Oly?
Welcome to the forum.!

 

[Jeff]

Thank you so much!

J

 

[wigwamitus]

In general I aim at 1.515" for all my clipons and scope mounts and that has worked for me ... but I was told (by Aaron) that the 100mm Apollo is significantly higher ... which is one reason I decided (reluctantly) not to go with the Apollo Pro ... I'd not only have to get all new scope mounts .... but I'd probably need to acquire some new stock/cheek cover solutions as well as my eye ball would need to be up higher ... too much disruption!

 

[BigRedDog]

they said the Apollo Pro sits at 1.5 inches from the top of the mount to the optic center line with the 50mm and the 100mm

this is per Steven with Armasight

 

[BigRedDog]

Let me know if you want someone to talk to directly over there

 

[wigwamitus]

When I say 1.515 ... I mean from the top of the RAIL to the center line of the optic. If I have several clipons and several different scope mounts ... and I want to be able to move things around ... then I can't necessarily optimize each ... hence I tried to aim at an "average" ... and I think I run from 1.47 up to 1.57 ... but again that is from top of rail to center line ... top of mount would be different!
I still think the Apollo Pro 100 is higher than most on average ... so it probably requires remounts for the scopes it would be used with ... and also rethinking your cheek to stock situations to make sure your eyes are aligned. You might only be able to run the Apollo Pro 100mm on 1 rifle!

 

[wigwamitus]

Oh wait, I see BRD is saying 50mm and 100mm are same height ... I would NOT have thunk that !!! That sounds like good news!

 

[Jeff]

BRD... Thank you for taking the time to check. He may be right in his answer so maybe I asked the wrong question.

I just measured my Zeus 3 (75mm). It is 1.60" from the optical centerline to the top of the rail. The pic rail mount is about .200" thick and there is a riser block between the pic rail mount and the Zeus of some height. I have maybe a 6-7mm gap between the top of the rail and the lens.

Fortunately Armasight has both the 50mm Pro and 100mm Pro pictures on rifles. If you see the pics the 100mm scope optical centerline is much higher (above the top of the rail) than the 50mm. Please see the links below. Quite a height difference. This is my confusion!


Jeff

 

[Jeff]

Oops... Sorry. I am from Olympia, WA.

 

[wigwamitus]

Well, you might be able to get a custom mount for an Apollo Pro 100mm to lower it down ... I'd definitely consider that if I was going with Apollo Pro 100mm ... might not cost too much ... I got some custom rails from Ken Farrell in Warsaw, MO for $200 a piece and that was lower cost than similar standard rails! So under $500 should be more than possible for a custom mount. Give them a call if you go this way. I don't think that 100mm mount needs to be that high ...

Ken Farrell, Inc.

 

[wigwamitus]

I'm betting the issue will be recoil tolerance ... maybe Armasight went with that MEGA mount on the Apollo Pro 100mm to be able to meet the 50 BMG tolerance? Ken Farrell won't be able to do recoil testing ... so if you need 50 bmg you might be better off getting new scope mounts and cheek pads ... and sticking with the MEGA mount provided on the Apollo Pro 100mm ...

But if you only need 30 cal (heavy rifle for .300WM or .338LM) then a lighter mount should work. And Ken Farrell should be able to help.

Aaron might be able to weigh on the mount situation as well ... he's had some bobro mounts made up to try to improve on the Armasight stock mounts ...

==
I dreamed about the Apollo Pro 100mm ... but couldn't figure out how to solve all the issues, so went with Zeus 75mm(640-30) instead ... and am totally happy about 3 weeks into it

Good luck on your quest!!!

 

[Jeff]

I have the same unit as well (Zeus 75mm) and really like it, however I'd like to use the 300 Blackout upper for Deer as well so a clip-on makes sense.

j

 

[Delta4-3]

I have the same unit as well (Zeus 75mm) and really like it, however I'd like to use the 300 Blackout upper for Deer as well so a clip-on makes sense.

j

All of the Armasight stuff is at different hights, but Wigwam hit the nail on the head with his measurments.
The Apollo Pro 100mm should be measured in feet instead of inches. That sucker sits way too high for any scope mount I have on hand.

I've got some smoking deals on CO-X's and apollo's and they all come with an upgraded Bobro mount that is much better than the factory contraption.

 

[TEXASLAWMAN]

The 100mm did not even come close to lining up with my Vortex 1-6x but I did not adversely affect anything that I could tell.

 

[wigwamitus]

TLM, can you pull the Apollo off and shoot with the Vortex and then put the Apollo back on and shoot with the combo with "no" adjustments?
I know a guy (Dave Bittel) out in Salina, KS and he has really tried to make the heights match between the scopes and apollo on all his rifles to minimize POI shift and he thinks he helps. I've always accept some "adjustment" ... especially if it repeatable ... but some folks want little/no adjustment.
With the COLR I don't (usually) experience need for adjustment ... but COLR lines up pretty well with my day optics ...

 

[Jeff]

I have the following optical centerline above pic rail measurements from the Armasight User Manuals:

CO-MINI - (no riser) - 29.3mm / 1.15"
CO-MINI - (with riser) - 38.8mm / 1.53"
CO-MR - 37.8 / 1.49"
CO-X - 37.8mm / 1.5"
CO-LR - 40mm / 1.57"
Apollo 42mm - 40mm / 1.57"

I still don't know about the 50mm PRO model, however I would guess between 1.6" and 1.7". If anyone has a 50mm PRO and can measure the optical centerline to the top of the rail it would be very helpful!

Jeff

 

[TDinger]

I have the Pro 100mm and it is crazy tall. You can't really buy a set of rings or a mount tall enough to get you where you are lined up perfectly. It would require about 1.9 or 2.0" of rings and mount to do it. With being able to adjust screen margins, you can be off quite a bit and still get full and centered screen and hit where you want to with little to no day optic adjustment.