I rented a pulsar xp50 this weekend.My first time using a thermal isn't definitely not enough magnification like texaslawman and some others I talked to about it said.I'm going to get a bigger one soon.We still had 4 or so inches of snow on last night.It seemed to pick up a fog or mist coming off the snow.Has anyone else seen this?An it made it almost white out between that and the trees.I tried adjusting the contrast.Tonight most of the snow should be done.We got one coyote with night vision last night.
Using a thermal when snow is on thr ground
- Thread starter Sa1000
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ballistic1
New Member
In my experience, I have found that cold conditions.. <=20F for example, seem to
have more influence on "gray out" type conditions than does merely having snow on the
ground. We were out last night, temps were 35 and falling as night wore on.
I had no issues whatsoever in seeing/ viewing while scanning. Snow covered ground here
in Wisconsin.
But, awhile back one night I stopped to scan a semi wooded entrance that led
into a hay field behind it... and I had very noticeable gray out/ wash out conditions.
That night was quite chilly though, 15 or so. It was so noticeable that I actually got
out 2 other thermals to compare that night.. lol. All suffered in those particular conditions.
In any case, I would certainly give it some more time before drawing any quick
conclusions.. I also run a Trail XP50, and it delivers a very nice image... IMO
I could clearly see and ID, 2 coyotes in the back of the distant hayfield last night at around midnight, and temps here had descended to 26F. Range to that spot, 540 yds, confirmed this morning.
Hopefully you give it some more field time and witness more favorable results.
have more influence on "gray out" type conditions than does merely having snow on the
ground. We were out last night, temps were 35 and falling as night wore on.
I had no issues whatsoever in seeing/ viewing while scanning. Snow covered ground here
in Wisconsin.
But, awhile back one night I stopped to scan a semi wooded entrance that led
into a hay field behind it... and I had very noticeable gray out/ wash out conditions.
That night was quite chilly though, 15 or so. It was so noticeable that I actually got
out 2 other thermals to compare that night.. lol. All suffered in those particular conditions.
In any case, I would certainly give it some more time before drawing any quick
conclusions.. I also run a Trail XP50, and it delivers a very nice image... IMO
I could clearly see and ID, 2 coyotes in the back of the distant hayfield last night at around midnight, and temps here had descended to 26F. Range to that spot, 540 yds, confirmed this morning.
Hopefully you give it some more field time and witness more favorable results.
It was in the 30s here last night.I had to wait for some deer to move closer to be able to tell what they were at 225 yards last night.I tried black got and white hot.Inside 150 or so no problem telling what they were.Or if they were where the snow was gone an on white hot I could tell further out what they were.
wigwamitus
LSB Active Member
In the past month, we've been below freezing (24 hrs pr day) for the past month all but 4 days. And for here, that is unusual. The lowest we've gotten is -16F and I've experienced lower temps here, but not so many totally before zero days ... and quite a few totally below 20F days.
As to thermal performance ... days with sun matter a lot. The trees get heated up. If everything is the same temp then you have a "sea of grey". The critters will still stand out, but not the terrain. So judging how far away a critter is gets tough. With the trees heated up, you can see the tree trunks and know where you are.
Mist is the worst. I've seen mist so bad I couldn't see my heated up buggy beyond 84yds with thermal or pvs-14.
So snow (or rain) tends to make everything the same temp, hence hard to see the terrain. The critters will still stand out, but hard to judge distance.
In snow, a pvs-14 on the head really helps. The snow seems to "amplify" any available light and things look almost day like thru the 14. This is one of the cases where the 14 trumps the thermal.
Last night - the 4th of our 4 "hot" days in the past month, we did have mist. I'd call it medium mist ... I could see terrain out to about 150yds ... but not 200, 300, 400. Image was great inside 150yds but useless beyond. The weather report said we were having "fog". It was right around 30F.
As to thermal performance ... days with sun matter a lot. The trees get heated up. If everything is the same temp then you have a "sea of grey". The critters will still stand out, but not the terrain. So judging how far away a critter is gets tough. With the trees heated up, you can see the tree trunks and know where you are.
Mist is the worst. I've seen mist so bad I couldn't see my heated up buggy beyond 84yds with thermal or pvs-14.
So snow (or rain) tends to make everything the same temp, hence hard to see the terrain. The critters will still stand out, but hard to judge distance.
In snow, a pvs-14 on the head really helps. The snow seems to "amplify" any available light and things look almost day like thru the 14. This is one of the cases where the 14 trumps the thermal.
Last night - the 4th of our 4 "hot" days in the past month, we did have mist. I'd call it medium mist ... I could see terrain out to about 150yds ... but not 200, 300, 400. Image was great inside 150yds but useless beyond. The weather report said we were having "fog". It was right around 30F.
wigwamitus
LSB Active Member
If I'm reading all you are saying, you are starting out with thermal. I've been there myself, not too long ago, back in April 2014 ... at first I couldn't tell a deer from a turkey, at 200 yards !
I'd read I would need a lot of experience to be able to "interpret" what I was seeing with the thermal ... and I think that is true ... but the "levels" come in spurts ... but watching the critters move at night and categorizing all that is much of this "interpretation" part.
I'd say, for me PID is 60% how they move, 30% shape and 10% other ...
Like if it jumped a fence ... it is more likely to be a deer than a coyote !
The "heads down grazing" behavior is also very abnormal for a yote ...
Opossum versus Coon ... head on can be tough ... Coons usually move faster, but not always ...
Even recently I thought a yote was a deer because it was eating apples off the apple trees in the apple orchard and I've seen 100 deer do that, but zero yotes ... but eventually I figured it out. Size was the first clue, but when it started moving away from the apple tree, then it was obvious.
We live along a creek and there is a lot of vegetation, so often I am doing PID through layers of vegetation, even in winter with a zillion dead weed stalks. Around here "weeds" can be over your head with stalks thicker than your fingers and so hard it would take 5 mins to saw through the stalk with a serrated pocket knife.
But stick with it and things improve a lot !!!
Also, usually for me on black hot, the ground is white and the critters are black, and that's whether snow on it or not. When I've put up black hot videos, some people have commented about the "snow" even though there was no snow.
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I went out last night Just watching my horses ,dogs and a few rabbits around the yard.All the snow was gone an that helped some.Still a lab at 100 yards is hat to say exactly what it is.Horses no problem the labs at 50 no problem.How much difference will it make going up to a Ir Hunter 60mm or armasight zues 3x24x75? verse the xp50 I have now?
I rented
I rented the xp50 to see how it worked may rent a Ir Hunter 60mm to see the difference in the next few weeks.
I rented the xp50 to see how it worked may rent a Ir Hunter 60mm to see the difference in the next few weeks.
This. It's amazing how you WANT it to be something when you know it's not. The more time you get behind a thermal, the quicker you'll identify objects, but you'll still (most likely) try to convince yourself it's something you want it to be.If I'm reading all you are saying, you are starting out with thermal. I've been there myself, not too long ago, back in April 2014 ... at first I couldn't tell a deer from a turkey, at 200 yards !
I'd read I would need a lot of experience to be able to "interpret" what I was seeing with the thermal ... and I think that is true ... but the "levels" come in spurts ... but watching the critters move and night and categorizing all that is much of this "interpretation" part.
I'd say, for me PID is 60% how they move, 30% shape and 10% other ...
Like if it jumped a fence ... it is more likely to be a deer than a coyote !
The "heads down grazing" behavior is also very abnormal for a yote ...
Opossum versus Coon ... head on can be tough ... Coons usually move faster, but not always ...
Even recently I thought a yote was a deer because it was eating apples off the apple trees in the apple orchard and I've seen 100 deer do that, but zero yotes ... but eventually I figured it out. Size was the first clue, but when it started moving away from the apple tree, then it was obvious.
We live along a creek and there is a lot of vegetation, so often I am doing PID through layers of vegetation, even in winter with a zillion dead weed stalks. Around here "weeds" can be over your head with stalks thicker than your fingers and so hard it would take 5 mins to saws through the stalk with a serrated pocket knife.
But stick within and things improve a lot !!!
Also, usually for me on black hot, the ground is white and the critters are black, and that's whether snow on it or not. When I've put up black hot videos, some people have commented about the "snow" even though there was no snow.
For example, I've hit a dry spell with coyotes lately. With a combination of less than optimal weather and the dumb coyotes dead, I haven't had any luck. Last night, I was scanning and hit a heat signature. Almost immediately, I realized it was a rabbit, but I spent a few minutes trying to convince myself it was a coyote. Who cares that it was smaller and it was hopping around - I WANTED it to be a coyote!
Just something to keep in mind when you're starting out - not everything is what you want it to be. No, I didn't shoot the rabbit...
I'm betting you'd see a big difference between the XP50 and the IR Hunter MK3 35mm
wigwamitus
LSB Active Member
When I first got my first thermal - Apollo 336 1x - I went out a LOT just to look and watch and took a DVR to document ...
== These are from back in summer 2014 ...
This is a fawn that approaches to within 25yds. I had inadvertantly gotten between the fawn and its mother. Eventually, I make enough noise that the fawn runs away ... then I go away to allow mother to rejoin fawn.
==
This is my house on a good thermal performance night ...
==
And here is another deer in the alfalfa patch ...
==
But going out to just look was a very worthwhile activity in the early months of thermal-ing ...
== These are from back in summer 2014 ...
This is a fawn that approaches to within 25yds. I had inadvertantly gotten between the fawn and its mother. Eventually, I make enough noise that the fawn runs away ... then I go away to allow mother to rejoin fawn.
==
This is my house on a good thermal performance night ...
==
And here is another deer in the alfalfa patch ...
==
But going out to just look was a very worthwhile activity in the early months of thermal-ing ...