US mil NV model questions

Taco

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The the M845 was a U.S. issue dedicated shorter range NV gen2 rifle sight? Is the PVS-17 an updated version?....is it USMC only?

I'm not interested in buying either, just trying to learn a bit and can't find too much online.

How do these scopes come to the civilian market? In the case of a pvs-4 or m845 does say a dealer buy surplus housings then buy and install tubes that are commercially available? Or are new housings available to buy and build on most models?

Where does dept of defense or whoever draw the line on what can be surplused or sold as contract overruns by their contractors when it comes to Nods?
 

Delta4-3

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I think I can help you out here. The M845 and PVS-17 are both good optics built for separate contracts, with the PVS-17 being the superior of the two.
They came on to the market in a pretty common way. Since newer, much better technology eclipsed the need for gen 2 scopes, or dedicated NV scopes for that matter, the US sold a large portion of the M845's, PVS-4's and PVS-17's in inventory to Israel, and smaller numbers to a few other allied nations. Israel used and abused them for a 10-20+ years then sold them to importers here. Last summer a dealer was selling M845's and PVS-4's at a very attractive price. These were units that had been used and outserviced by the US, then Israel got their use out of them and sold them to an importer in California who is aligned with that dealer. They were repainted (very nicely I might add) and sold at good prices on the civilian market. I was contacted, as were several other companies to see if we had an interest in them. They were certainly priced well, but you don't get to pick through them. You may get broken, busted up units that you have to sell or use for parts along with several other units to make a functional scope.
 

Taco

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Great info. Thanks Aaron. Not many pvs-17s are in the U.S, right?

So pvs-14 contractors can sell to the civilian market, tubes, housings, etc. Are their other makes/models along that line.....meaning devices that are not surplused and imported?

So it's up to the manufacturer what they put on the civie market? Since pvs-14 is a high use item and there are lots of contracts they have a scale whereby it's worth it to them to make extras or make extras available to us?
 
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Delta4-3

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Great info. Thanks Aaron. Not many pvs-17s are in the U.S, right?

So pvs-14 contractors can sell to the civilian market, tubes, housings, etc. Are their other makes/models along that line.....meaning devices that are not surplused and imported?

So it's up to the manufacturer what they put on the civie market? Since pvs-14 is a high use item and there are lots of contracts they have a scale whereby it's worth it to them to make extras or make extras available to us?
There are not a lot of US made models that are strictly commercial market.
It's actually the government that decides what goes on the commercial market, and what can be exported. For instance, the PVS-14, being built as a military device from the ground up is restricted for export. The MUM-14 on the other hand, though it was used by the military, was not built at the governments request strictly for military use, so it is a very common export item, and can be obtained commercially. It is also up to Uncle Sam to decide what to do with units that are no longer needed in service, which usually means that they end up being sold/given to allied countries.
There are also units that are DRMO'ed. Example; a few years back the military sold off a large number of ANVIS goggles on the commercial market that were taken out of service because they were broken. Broken, in this case, was often an easy fix, or at least had two nice tubes that could be used in another housing. They sold cheap, and it resulted in a lot of 10160 showing up on the market, as well as damaged or repaired ANVIS-6 housings.

To make it more confusing, DoD often dictates that an item that was once restricted to military/le use is now released for commercial sale. An example of this is autogated tubes. It was not all that long ago that, as a civilian, you could not buy honestly obtained autogated tubes. That was later lifted (2006ish I believe) and autogated tubes became commercially available to us mortals.

In more recent history, you have the awesome PVS-31's and GPNVG-18's. They are restricted to Gov. sales. Even as a dealer you can't call up and order a set. So these dealers you see pimping these and other restricted items on forums (not necessarily selling them....just letting you know they have them) get them by having extra's sent to a LE department they are chummy with. So the department orders 5, said dealer will order 8, and pick up the remaining 3 from the department. Or, they will talk a department into buying a pair, which the dealer pays for, then picks it up at the department when it is shipped. However, once technology eclipses these units, they will likely be cleared for commercial sales, and the next best thing that surpasses it will be a restricted item.

It's much more complex than that in reality, but that's the jist of how it happens.
 

Delta4-3

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Ah, another one. Sometimes a night vision manufacturer will win a contract with a foreign country that ends up falling through. So, to keep from getting in a pinch financially, the manufacturer will get a variance to be able to sell the items, depending on what they are of course, on the commercial market.
 

Taco

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Man that clears up a lot. Thanks again.
 

fanninland

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Good stuff Aaron. Thanks for posting - it's a fascinating industry for sure.
 

wigwamitus

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Taco is gonna get Aaron to write that NV book, one page at a time !!! :D

The smokin' jacket and Cigars will not be ignored !!! :)
 

Ratdog68

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