Thoughts on first thermal?

[boatdriver1790]

I'm looking to buy my first thermal and hope to get some info from the experts. I've been borrowing an older Thor 3-12 for a while and have been pretty pleased with it. Of course, I recently used an IR Mark III and saw a huge difference.

I have access to some pretty phenomenal discounts on ATN products. While I know they didn't get the best reviews in the past, I have been way impressed with the new HD line. Specifically, I can grab the new ThOR-HD384-4.5-18x, 384x288, 50mm for a great price. I can get the HD384-1.25-5x, 384x288, 19mm for even better.

Thermal Rifle Scope ThOR-HD with Camera for Night hunting

You guys have any recommendations in that price range other than those models? Is the 50mm model worth the extra grand?

Thanks for any advice! I've only been using the borrowed Thor thus far as a spotter. Can't wait to get one on the rifle.

EDIT: Prices redacted so not to violate the terms of their discount.

 

[Terry]

Well, I'm one of the few Thor users here on the forum my go to Thermal scope is the 2015 Thor 640 2.5X 50mm model (Not the new 2016 Thor HD).
I really like my 2015 Thor it's been solid as a rock and the best thermal system I've owned so far. I hated to see ATN go to the new Thor HD as after years of firmware upgrades and user feedback the 2015 model Thor was rock solid.

I have used the new Thor HD 640 its a nice preforming scope in white hot mode, but right now I prefer the old model for a few reasons (That could change with future upgrades/firmware on HD model). First the menu is crazy busy I like simple, Second black hot mode needs a firmware adjustment it just wasn't as impressive as it should be, next they cheapen the rear optics eye glass you can tell it compared to the old model Thor and I prefer the OLED screen on old model. I have yet to see any LCD screen on thermal that offers the contrast to the image a OLED offers period. There is a reason OLED's cost more and remember the screen is what your eye see's not the part to go cheap on!

That all said, yes the 50mm lens is much better buy it! A bigger lens performs better in my experience.

Last you may consider buying a Zeus 336 42mm its a proven model scope,uses OLED screen and priced very well when you get good price quote. I'm going Zeus in the future myself until I see upgrades/changes to the new THOR HD line. I feel that the Zeus line has matured over the years and now its the best bang for your buck and the proven/solid performer.

 

[Brian Shaffer]

My take is this. Don't buy the ATN ThorHD. The older ATN Thors were good scopes. If you are dead set on ATN, find one of those. The issue with the new Thor is that a bunch of them (not just 1 or 2) are problematic. Maybe you get a good one. Maybe not.

If you are going with 3XX resolution scopes, I like the Pulsar Apex series quite well. We have folks here such as Lancer and Jake that hunt with them regularly and do quite well with them. I have hunted with the 38 and the 50 model and found both to be excellent scopes for being 384 resolution. We all have vids, but Jake and Lancer's vids should be checked out first as they are current users of the scopes.

With that said, rgilbert is using the high end Apex75a. It is a goodly bit more pricey, but I got my first look at his scope last weekend and was very much impressed with what the bigger lens does.

ATN is not known for good CS. Sellmark who is the importer and US rep for Pulsar has a very good reputation for CS.

 

[Terry]

I forgot the Pulsar Apex another great choice Brian posted!

One of the land owners we hunt on picked up a Apex 50A which has super impressive performance for the dollar. He says it reminds him of a old girl friend from college. The Apex isn't much to look at, but after it gets dark the performance really surprises you. LOL

 

[boatdriver1790]

Thank you guys both for the input. Excellent info.

Let me ask this...at what price point would you take a "risk" on the new ATN HD? Would you try the 50mm 384 at around $2500? How about the 25mm at $1800?

I'm certainly not trying to get anyone to say they believe the ATN is better. But at what price point would you take a chance at?

 

[Terry]

As far as the 384 19mm cheapest Thor HD scope I would pass on that one because you will be looking to sale it in a few months to upgrade I promise you. The issue is with a 336/384 core you need at least 2X then 3X would be even better for ID and pin point shoot placement in my experience. A 1X weapon sight is very limited range.

With the 50mm model for $2500 you would be looking at another$500-600 to get into a 50A or 336 42mm Zeus if you price shop around a good buy. If you could wait a couple months and give ATN time from firmware upgrades the 50mm HD will be your cheapest model.

If buying today $2500 is a chuck of money for me and I'm not a gambler. I would pay more for a proven model just saying and I'm a ATN thermal guy have several of their thermal systems which I like very much.

 

[gshock]

Thank you guys both for the input. Excellent info.

Let me ask this...at what price point would you take a "risk" on the new ATN HD? Would you try the 50mm 384 at around $2500? How about the 25mm at $1800?

I'm certainly not trying to get anyone to say they believe the ATN is better. But at what price point would you take a chance at?

For a little more you can get the Pulsar XD50A like Terry mentioned. I got mine for 3,099 but I think the price is back up to 3,175 (cash)

Lots of good advice in this thread!

 

[Brian Shaffer]

This was a very telling video about the amazing Thor HD. Either the Pulsar ApexXD50 is really 4x or better and the Thor HD is 4.5x as claimed or the Pulsar is 2x as claimed and the Thor is really more like 2.2x.

Now I understand that the Thor may be physically a 4.5x, but what the user is getting, the user-rendered image, isn't likely 4.5x.

So here is a side by side. Make your own call.

 

[Docspride]

Brand new to your forum. I took delivery of my first thermal scope from IR Defense Hunter Mark III 640x380 35mm on 06/10/16 . I have had it out 6 times since receiving. The following is my expierence so far. I have hunted feral hogs and coyotes in Florida since I was a young boy of 14-15 y/o. I hunted with dogs, lights at night. This purchase of the IR Defense scope was a plan that took me 18 months to pull the trigger on (sorry about pun). The price of the scope was important but it was not as important as having a superior product that would perform as marketing information indicates. I spent some time at NRA yearly meeting in Nashville 2015 talking with all the thermal imaging companies and their sales represenitives that had time to answer my endless questions regarding reliability and what distances I could expect to be able to obtain a thermal images or heat signature at. Realistically not just was printed in product brochures. In SW FL. under very humid conditions with standing water covering most of the 12,800 acres I have at my disposal only 12 miles from my home is where I do most of my hunting. I then went back to NRA ANNUAL MEETINGS in Louisville, KY. 05/19/2016 I was close now on a decision and liked the LWRC at a price of $12K. I had the opportunity to talk with IR Defense sales representatives to ask even more questions. In the booth at show I personally met with a young lady that takes parts from CNC wipes down and sends out for powder coating. Then I met another young lady that hand solders all connections inside the scope. Then I met Don and he loads the firmware and runs all electronic testing. These folks are almost all military vets with multiple deployments in Iraqi and Afghanistan. They have expierece with the technology. They told me when you purchase from us and need support the people your meeting here today at the NRA exhibit hall are in fact the folks you will be speaking with. I met with Lloryd Hill who actually works trade shows and uses the IR Defense products himself as well as sells them. He simply told me go walk the exhibit hall and see for myself what all is out there and then come back and he will take good care of me. I have 6 all night hunts at the time of writing this. 6pm -6am. The best way to describe the scope I chose Hunter Mark III 35mm 640x480. Badass is the best I can think of to describe. The use of turrets for accessing menu selections and image adjustments is the only way for me as I have index and middle finger amputated up to second knuckle on dominat hand so buttons to depress in total darkness are not user friendly for me. I have the scope mounted on a Remington 700 300blk 16" w/ a Varmiter 3.0 silencer. I also put a YHM 6" extension that served two needs. Placed scope back toward me and with custom comb/cheek riser for proper eye relief for comfort on extending viewing times. This also gave me an additional 1/2" rise which really helps with loading rounds into magazine with the rail setup on the Remington 700.
The battery time I'm getting on energizer 123 lithium or Duracell ultra lithium 123 is 3 1/2 hours of constant use. I power the unit on when I drive through gate and only power off to change batteries. I use the scope as a hand held spotting/scanning device 90% of the night. I have fabricated a lanyard to keep scope from ever falling onto buggy floor or into water. I can instantly detect a thermal image in a tree top at 800yrds. Driving slowly and stopping to identify turkeys roosting or racoons can be done at 200 yards. At 100yrds you can even make out the rings on a coons tail. Obviously the color of animal hair causes a deviation in thermal image. You can easily see detail like ears, tail. Detecting larger game is no problem at distances greater than 1000yrds. You can detect and identify hog from young calves with positive ID at 200yds and closer. I spent 1 night just observing the deer 15-20 in one pasture from 700yrds to 150yrds. At the closer distances spotting racks on bucks is possible. I have found that you can take all the time you need to run through menus and adjusting for the best image possible with great detail. i.e. White hot, black hot, with 3 different levels of white and black hot, edge detect works great. It will draw a white outline of the game you are observing, contrast, back light, digital focus, using the digital zoom works as described but each time you go up in zoom level you cut your pixel/resolution in half. Because you are in total darkness taking your time is key for optimum image. The game your observing doesn't know your there. Killing hogs has been so easy and has taken it from 1-2 per night to actual feral hog control. I had 6 hogs at 120-165yrds using the scopes range finder. I was able to take 4 of the hogs before deciding to demonstrate our old ways. Spot light on hogs and 1 round fired from a un-silenced 308cal. . The shot was missed and I watched the remaining 2 hogs head off the pasture and over levy seeking cover of nearby cypress trees. I am 100% satisfied with quality and function of scope. The scope did everything marketing documentation said it would do and then some. During the learning curve I did turn several turrets rapidly and switched between turrets rapidly. This caused scope to lock up. I had image but turrets no longer activated menu selections. I called it a lock up. I powered off and back on and it corrected both times. This took 15 seconds to correct. I truly believe this was due to operator error. I can mount the scope after using it on a lanyard to the rail in total darkness just using feel. The LaRue rail locks work and weapon stays zeroed. I hope this novel helps anyone that is on the fence about wether a big ticket item is worth it. In my humble opinion this scope is worthy as are the dedicated men and woman who assemble and test them. The product being made 100% in USA by our retired arm forces vets is just icing on the cake. You will never look at the woods at night again as you did before using the Hunter Mark III

 

[FrankT]

Docs, great write up and excellent comments, I think you are sold!! NW FL here...and welcome to the forum!!

 

[Wildfowler]

He says it reminds him of a old girl friend from college. The Apex isn't much to look at, but after it gets dark the performance really surprises you. LOL

Best quote of all time!!

 

[JPK]

I have the IR Hunter MK II 35mm and the Apex HD 50S.

If you can swing the IR Defense, go for it, you will not be disappointed. Personally, I don't see the added value of the MK III over the MK II and would select the MK II over the MK III, and I find the 2.45x magnification of the 35mm lens about perfect for night hunting - and I would go less (and did with the 2x Apex 50mm) but more than 3x native magnification.

If an IR Defense MK II is out of your price range, the Apex 50 is a great choice, It requires more user attention with focus and settings than a MK II, which works pretty darn well without fidling, but the tuning required to get the best out of the Apex is not too burdensome.

I know Big Red Dog, a member here who is a dealer, can provide you with competitive pricing on the IR Defense products, and I'm pretty sure he can also with the Pulsar products. Hopefully he will pitch in on this thread, but if he doesn't maybe shooting him a PM would be a good idea.

I also second Brian's suggestion to watch some of Lancer's videos. Good fun and informative regarding the Apex 50's capabilities.

(Edit - Terry's line about the ex girlfriend really is a hoot!)

JPK

 

[BigRedDog]

we are here to help.

******************* does handle the Pulsar, Armasight and IR Defense products.

We will get members here great pricing.

call us to talk and ask any questions you may have

thanks guys!!!!

 

[mdmorrow]

Personally I'd try to budget for a handheld and a rifle scope. I hate scanning everything with the rifle. I use my spotter ten times as much as my rifle mounted thermal.

 

[boatdriver1790]

I had a chance to look through an XD38a today while at Bass Pro. Gotta say I was shocked. Granted, it was probably a cool 72 degrees in there with hardly any humidity, but the clarity was amazing. Getting close to the decision.

******** was amazingly helpful. He spent a solid half hour on the phone with me talking about the merits of each model.

 

[BigRedDog]

Personally I'd try to budget for a handheld and a rifle scope. I hate scanning everything with the rifle. I use my spotter ten times as much as my rifle mounted thermal.

spot on for the guys that can swing both.

once you have detected your targets you can close the distance to better identify.

scan first

 

[Lancer]

I had a chance to look through an XD38a today while at Bass Pro. Gotta say I was shocked. Granted, it was probably a cool 72 degrees in there with hardly any humidity, but the clarity was amazing. Getting close to the decision.

******** was amazingly helpful. He spent a solid half hour on the phone with me talking about the merits of each model.

I'm quite certain you won't regret the XD38a, I love mine and ******** had great pricing and was awesome to deal with.

 

[Ncorry]

spot on for the guys that can swing both.

once you have detected your targets you can close the distance to better identify.

scan first

I lived with the rifle-mounted Zeus for a while, but once I got a Pulsar HD38 (maybe an XD38?, something or other), it gets used at least 5x more often than the 640 Zeus.

 

[JPK]

I agree with ********, a spotter is a great tool to have in addition to a scope, but get the best scope you can reasonably afford first. If you have the budget also get a spotter, if not you can get by pretty well with just a good scope. Then save for the spotter.

JPK