Night vision vs thermal

TEXASLAWMAN

Lone Star Boars Owner
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Thought I would post up a couple of pictures from last night to show how a thermal can help you even on a full moon night. It was super bright last night you could see for miles with the pvs-14 until the fog started rolling in.

Here is a picture through the fog with a pvs.




Here is the same field same time with the thermal.

 

1956_4x4

Crestview, Florida
LoneStarBoars Supporter
Thermal sure makes a difference. I wish I could afford it. I went the PVS-14 route mainly due to budget.

Smitty
 

TEXASLAWMAN

Lone Star Boars Owner
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Thermal sure makes a difference. I wish I could afford it. I went the PVS-14 route mainly due to budget.

Smitty

The pvs-14 is a necessity while thermal is a very nice extra.
 

pruhdlr

Cantonment,Fla.
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Actually there are a few benefits to using thermal. Nights like tonight are no good for me. Waaaaaay too bright. Best for me to hunt on a 30% moon or less. Even better with moon set or severely overcast. I have an APP on my smart phone that will tell me all this(SunDroid). It is a extremely useful tool for the night hunter.

Even better for me is a no moon night with the swamp fog moved in like it usually does about 2100 in the summer months. I mostly hunt between two swampy bottoms that are about 300yds apart. The fog rolls in from both of them towards my plots and the main access road. Makes for an extremely dark night.

IMO the animals cannot see as a human cannot see in complete darkness. However given a tiny bit of light and the animals have the advantage. I have had a yote walk right up to me on one of the darkest of nights. I have also had a yote see me with a <25% visible moon,down a road,at 150yds.

Another plus for thermal(at least mine)is that I can hunt with it during the daytime. If a bright light shines directly into the lens all I see is the heat produced and that is extremely limited,especially from a LED/CREE type bulb. I have killed both hogs and yotes well before sunset with my thermal.

Thermal sees "thru" brush. Well......not really,however if 1/2 square inch is all that is exposed of an animal at 100yds....I can see it. I have tested this by setting up large pieces of cardboard with different sized holes cut in it and a heat source(my wife)behind it.

Another plus for thermal is that it will see cold just as well as heat. Water,frozen in pill bottles,are an excellent target for sight in. If my wife put her hand up against the cardboard I could see her hand "thru" it. This is the same for an animal standing in tall grass. The grass that is against the animal is heated up and will stand out better than the other grass.

When an animal is hit,the blood spray is really evident. So is the red mist from the bullet as it exits. It looks like a big white ball floating in the air,which fairly quickly dissipates. Any blood deposited on the ground is viewable. It is quite easily track'able. --- pruhdlr
 

TEXASLAWMAN

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Yes thermal is awesome but if I could only choose one NV devise it would be a pvs-14. You can drive walk shoot with it. Also thermal does not penetrate glass which is a huge problem.
 

Itsazonik

Cape Coral, FL
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thats my next saving point. after i get the PVS-14 im going to attempt to save up and get a hand held thermal. i have only looked around at a few but some are only $2000 so thats not too horrible. i need to sell a lot more t-shirts lol
 

Ident Marking

Rockwall, Texas
Vendor
NV is better at ID'ing target, shooting and navigation while thermal is better for scanning and target acquisition. Some will say that thermal is better for shooting and sometimes they are correct(really dark or cold nights) but for the most part NV gives you more precision. I will say that when a sounder bolts that a good thermal scope is fun because you can pick them up so fast.

-hd
 

Harris hawker

LSB Member
I bought a lousy gen 1 NV, better than nothing almost.
But after getting it I wish I would have bought the cheap flir thermal.
You said thermal can't see thru a window and that it was bad, why?
I know the story of 3 little pigs, but I have never seen a pig behind glass.
Is it cause you can't see out the car window on a cold nite?
 

Hard_ware

Here piggy piggy! Deep Deep S. TX.
Franken thermal and form 1 suppressor
Swapped ps24 and ls64 around before and didn't check POI until I saw the critters
So I ended up shooting with red laser and head mounted pvs14, POI was just left of center.
That's why it looks like I am not aiming worth a crap
That's my story and I am sticking to it :D
Notice how 3rd critter didn't know where to run, and it was a full moon out.
Suppressors make hard to tell where shots are coming from.
I was painting it with the laser when the critter jumped and stood still, happened just before you hear the gunshot.
1st DRT 2nd one blood trail found but crossed fence 3rd went about 8ft into brush and dead
critters damaged about 3 acres of vegetables out of a 40acre field
group of 8 more on the south side of field going out later today or tomorrow

 
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Ident Marking

Rockwall, Texas
Vendor
You said thermal can't see thru a window and that it was bad, why?

Because you can't look out of your windshield or side windows unless they are down.

Also, when you have no moon it affects NV but you can add IR illumination and fix it. With thermal humidity is it's weakness and there is no fix for that.

-hd
 

pruhdlr

Cantonment,Fla.
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I do not understand the statement re. thermal......"humidity is it's weakness......" ??? Are you saying that the more humidity,the less effective thermal is ?? --- pruhdlr
 

Itsazonik

Cape Coral, FL
Vendor
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Down here in Florida on a darker night humidity is a big weakness for nv too. At least older gen nv it is. My gen 1 and my friends gen 2 completely wash out with the ir designator in high humidity months
 

FrankT

Destin FL
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Hardware thanks for the video, really well done all considering.
 

TEXASLAWMAN

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Yes I cover thousands of acres when I hunt so a lot of times I'm driving and can't use thermal through windshields.
 

Ident Marking

Rockwall, Texas
Vendor
I do not understand the statement re. thermal......"humidity is it's weakness......" ??? Are you saying that the more humidity,the less effective thermal is ?? --- pruhdlr

Yes Sir!
 

Brian Shaffer

Hog Hunter
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Yes, definitely high humidity, specifically fog, will "white out" thermal. HOWEVER, fog will kill NV as well. Thermal still works well enough in high humidity, but not as well as it does in low humidity. Humidity contains water vapor that had temperature and significant mass compared to air. Depending on your situation, its 99% humidity with no fog and so maybe you only see 300 yards instead of 600. For most hog hunters, that is still quite a distance, though some definitely need more.

Thermal also works less well when everything including the ground and all the vegetation is about the same temperature as the animals. That means everything blends together. You get no visual contrast.

I hunt with a guy that has one of Ident's PVS-14s and I have a FLIR PS32. Where we hunt, there are a lot of dark shapes that could be hogs that are not. Thermal roots out what has body heat and what doesn't. So instead of wasting time to see if the dark blob moves or not, he asks me if it is giving off heat.

The big problem I see with NV in general is that it still relies exclusively on contrast, which is a significant component of human sight. Sure, seeing black dots in a light colored field makes NV look amazing. You move into a shadowy forest environment and that strong contrast disappears. It can also be a problem with simple blending. A brown deer in tall brown grass can blend in very well. That is because there is a lack of contrast between the deer and the background. Part of how you can get over that is with an illuminator. Eyeshine is outstanding for spotting many animals. However, in a highly cluttered environment, using an IR illuminator often results in overillumination of items close to you and underillumination of items beyond, just like when you take a flash picture in the dark of a group of people up close, but all the people in the background are underexposed compared to the people in the foreground.

Since I don't drive around and try to see through my windshield, I have the opposite view of TLM. Thermal is the key for searching out targets in my world and I verify them with NV. In other words, what is necessary wholly depends on your mission parameters.

Oh, and while NV can see through windows and you can correct for some of its shortcomings by using in IR illuminator, you can't expect to shine the IR illuminator through the windows anymore than you would try to shine a flashlight through your windshield to illuminate your way if your headlights don't work. WAAAAY too much light will be reflected back at you. So the IR illumination correction for humidity doesn't if you are in a vehicle with the windows closed very well at all.
 

Ratdog68

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I keep wondering how all of this would work in the arctic environment. Below horizon it's white, above horizon it's gray (unless a ground storm, then it's just white). Looking for white furred critters with NV may be a bit of a challenge. I don't know (first hand) for certain, but, have been told that a polar bear is so well insulated, that there's nearly no thermal signature... other than eyes, ears, nose, etc.

I did get to play with a FLIR, once, over a year ago... and I'll confirm, FORGET about using it through a window. About akin to seeing through a lava lamp. LOL Especially a gas filled thermal pane. FLIR's great for pipeline inspections though.
 

SC-Texas

Texas Gun Trust
Thermal. Tells there is a target and it's relative size and shape


I-2 I.e. PVS-14 and d-740. Allows me to drive, walk and stalk up to target in total darkness to confirm that it is a pig and kill it.
 

Afalex1

LSB Active Member
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Even though thermal can't see through glass TLM and I rely heavily on it for spotting targets. It just means you need to know the properties and how to approach them in the truck so the man with the thermal can spot with the window down or hang out the window like Ace Ventura.

I have used a pvs 14 without thermal so much that even on nights without a moon I can see hogs 200 yards away. Of course humidity has a huge effect on this.

Perfect example of this was Friday night (see Into The Cold with T-Bone Outfitters in the hunting story section). We had freezing rain/fog, cloud cover and no moon for the first part of the night. The night vision could see 150-00 yards and the MTM thermal hit a wall around 200-250 yards. This was because of falling precipitation, low light and fog.

Our environment truly dictates how we use our equipment and hunting tactics. No matter how high tech or gear gets there are always limitations and trade offs. We just have to learn them and how to work around them.
 
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