Monocular for hog hunting, what do you use?

chthump

LSB Member
I purchased a TAM-14 about 5 or 7 years ago, by todays standards its a POS, but I've been in the market for a thermal monocular. Realizing that it won't see through glass and its harder to get a positive ID on your target. The TAM's ok, but was wanting to pick the brains of what you guys are using.
I use a PVS-14 to navigate/identify but the coyotes seem to pick up on the IR illuminator. I'm searching for the unicorn, a cheap, long range, thermal mono. Any suggestions.
 

Ncorry

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Nothing for you on the thermal, but for the IR illuminator being picked up by the yotes- I used a 30mm 850nm IR bypass filter and replaced the glass lens in the front of a Streamlight TLR-1 IR and a TL2-IR LED illuminator. Completely eliminates the red glow. I used a bigger version of hte 850nm filter for a SuperTac IR but had to put it in a Butler Creek cap since I couldn't get the glass lens off of it.
 

wigwamitus

LSB Active Member
Right now, I use my Apollo clipon as dual purpose hand-held monocular and thermal weapons site ... but to preserve tighest zero it is better not to move the weapons site, so best to have two devices. So here is my current list:


http://[URL='http://www.atncorp.com/thermal-monocular-atn-odin32cw-320-240-35mm-30hz']www.atncorp.com/thermal-monocular-atn-odin32cw-320-240-35mm-30hz[/url][/url]
The ATN looks like a decent unit but doesn't have the new cores offered by the latest Armasight and IR-Defense offerings. Of course neither of those latest devices are actually available yet :).

http://[URL='http://www.thenightvis...display-640x480-thermal-head-mount-waterproof']www.thenightvisionwarehouse.com/products/gsci-hmd-640-2-head-mounted-display-640x480-thermal-head-mount-waterproof[/url][/url]
This one looks usable and is the lowest cost, but I don't know what core it uses.


https://****.com/shop/ir-patrol-le100-c-series/
This is announced product from ir-defense and looks like a strong candidate. I'm still shifting through the comparison between this unit and the Q-14


https://www.armasight.com/thermal-imaging/thermal-imaging-monoculars/armasight-q14-336-30hz/
Announced Armasight unit, definitely in the running.


http://morovision.com/shop/coti-clip-on-thermal-imager/
As fall back position, this unit clips on to pvs-14 and offers "true fusion" ...

Here is attempt to compare the ir-patrol and q-14

yo3xUYL.jpg



The cheapest units might be the FLIR PS-24 PS-32 ... but they are rather dated and the prices have not come down.
 
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Afalex1

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I've been happy with my L3 X320 for spotting.
 

Chris

LSB Member
I use a flir ps 32 for spotting and an N 750 on my trusty AR. Works great for me...Were I hunt it's under 100 Yards so pretty easy to tell the difference between hogs and such. It's great to scan the area and see anything that's putting out heat.
 

Brian Shaffer

Hog Hunter
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The X320 is good and given what I know now, would be the other primary option I would consider to my FLIR PS32. They now have the newer version that has video-out and apparently a better display.
http://www.flir.com/uploadedFiles/Hunting-Outdoor/Resources/scoutII_sellSheet.pdf

I like the PS32 primarily because it does what I need in what I consider a more handy size. That is a personal preference. I am not a fan of the boxy shape of the X320, but it is a good scope for the job.

Aside from shape, the big differences I see are the refresh rate (9 hz for the PS32 and 30 hz for the X320) and batteries. The faster refresh rate is better, but not a huge issue for the purposes of spotting. The PS32 has an internal battery. I happen to like the feature because the 5 hour run time is enough for most of my hunts. The X320 lets you change out batteries.

Both are rugged and both will work fine. I believe the X320 is still a little bit more expensive.

Positive ID is a bit of an issue with ~320/336 resolution, small lenses, and 1x optical power. You learn to do a lot of interpolating of what you are seeing based on size, shape, and movement, plus the all important environmental factors. On a night with low humidity, I can tell the difference between a broadside deer and hog at 200 yards. It helps, a lot, if the deer raises its head from the ground. Hogs and deer (with heads down) can look a lot alike at distance and from about any angle with thermal. At 120 yards, I can tell the difference between a deer and hog coming at me out of the woods (the woods are at 120 from a stand I often use).

Smaller critters? At 100 yards, it can be difficult to tell the difference between a bobcat and a raccoon if you can't see the tail. If you don't know the distance (and distances are hard to judge through thermal), then a coyote standing still can look a lot like a deer as the tail often does not show up or show up well and their profiles are similar. Deer and coyotes move quite differently, however, and that is often a key feature.

When the humidity gets high, the images become less precise, and while you still may be able to see quite far, much of the detail gets lost. So the effective range of the scopes will drop.

Another problem with using these spotters can be in the telling of the difference between bedded cattle in foot tall grass and hogs standing in foot tall grass. While the profiles can look similar, again it is the movement that gives them away.

Note that the most salient benefit of thermal spotters at this level isn't identification so much as it is detecting that an animal is even out there.

I don't know what other units were on display at SHOT that would compete with these, but I would not want to go below 320 resolution and if you have the money, something with 2x optical resolution is a significant improvement, but such scopes usually come with a significant increase in price.
 

Wildfowler

Mis'sippi
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Thanks for your information. Is there a handheld "spotter" that has the higher optical zoom feature that you know of? I am a little concerned about using a spotter for hog hunting and realizing its really a deer half way through a 1000 yard stalk. (assuming you can even see an animal that far away)

I underetand that much of what you're looking at needs to be interpreted by the observer.

My only thermal experience is a buddy has an LWTS clip-on. We generally have no trouble identifying deer vs. hogs at a few hundred yards. Maybe even several hundred yards?


Thanks.
 

theblakester

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What's your price range?
 

FrankT

Destin FL
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Brian, that is 5.5lbs not to mention $3700...I guess I would like to ask is their a light weight handheld thermal spotter, maybe you could hang around you neck and not be a brick? This one almost seem like you would mount it to a light weight rifle stock to use?
 

Wildfowler

Mis'sippi
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If the price range question was for me I would say it depends on what you can really do with it more expensive units.


I've got another buddy coming to hunt tomorrow who has some sort of Flir handheld and Flir scope that I'll get to check out.

I have a night optics D-750 night vision scope and am very happy with the positive identification range under optimum conditions.
 
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Brian Shaffer

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Brian, that is 5.5lbs not to mention $3700...I guess I would like to ask is their a light weight handheld thermal spotter, maybe you could hang around you neck and not be a brick? This one almost seem like you would mount it to a light weight rifle stock to use?

The OTS is not 5.5 lbs. That is the shipping weight estimate. The spec sheet says 1.75 lbs. A big part of that will be the large 75mm lens.

At 6x, you are getting human-sized detection at 1800 meters and identification at 460 with this unit.
 

FrankT

Destin FL
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Thank Brian I was gonna say, the 5.5 is listed as its weight and 7.1 shipping...1.75 would be good to go.
 

theblakester

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Well something with a higher resolution and larger germanium lens ought to perform better all other variables equal but would also be more pricey. For long range I'd suggest something with a higher optical magnification than 1x also.

For long range identification, the armasight Prometheus 336 5x 75mm might be a good compromise for the price. But probably wouldn't be good for quick/mobile scanning bc the higher magnification would reduce your FOV. For more $ the 640 3x Prometheus might be good... I don't know. I've never looked through armasight products.
 

TEXASLAWMAN

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I have been using the mtm 320 resolution monocular for the last couple of years it's about half the size of the x320 but is restricted to LE and Mil.

The new Q-14 from Armasight is about to retire to MTM I think. They have 330 and a 640 resolution units that are smaller and lighter than a pvs-14. They can also be weapon mounted as a 1x scope.

I know Brian says he likes the 2x optical but for myself I prefer 1x in my monocular. This is to have a wide field of view and cover the most ground possible. The Mtm is 1x and only 320 resolution and has served me very well.
 

Brian Shaffer

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I know Brian says he likes the 2x optical but for myself I prefer 1x in my monocular. This is to have a wide field of view and cover the most ground possible.

I mentioned the magnification specifically because Wildflower expressed interest in longer range use. As for FOV, that depends on the configuration of the scope. Note that the Pulsar HD28s at 2.1x has a greater FOV than the L3 X320 at 1x.

320 and 336 models
FLIR PS32 ____17°x13°____1x___$3K
L-3 X320_____12°x9° _____1x___$3.4K
Pulsar HD38s__14.4°x10.8°__2.1 x _$3.8K
MTM 320_____23.4°x17.6°__1x___$12K
Armasight Q-14 _16° x 13°____1x___$7.1K

640 Model
Armasight Q-14__33° x 26°___1x___$9.5K (which should be 16.5° x 13° FOV when digitally zoomed to 2x which should give you 320 resolution...IIFC)
 

wigwamitus

LSB Active Member
**** has some MTM models that are restricted and some not ... seems to depend on presence of ir-laser vs visible laser. And I've seen at least one of the restricted models on ebay. Sometimes restrictions are due to legal or regulations, other times just due to contractual agreements.

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The ATN on Amazon for $3,700+ looks like a hecque of a deal for that 70mm lens for a pure hand held monocular.

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I don't think I would use the weapons mount capability some of the candidates have ... much ... but having the flexibility is nice.

I do want a hands free (helmet mountable) version. If you mostly hunt from a vehicle with glass in front, then hands free doesn't buy you much as you need to stop the vehicle to get the thermal image you want (if you are driving anyway). But if the vehicle has no glass or you are on foot, then the hands free option means you can spot while moving.

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The COTI would provide some fusion with the thermal overlay and can also be used as handheld monocular with separate eyepiece.

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I've seen posts saying more civilian fusion is coming ... so one question is how long will it be, probably another year at least. Having something like q-14 on helmet beside pvs-14 gives quick access to either view, so that might be near term substitute.

The PSQ-20 is available as a helmet mount fusion monocular, but I've been told it runs $16k, so looking for some reduction and more competition.

https://****.com/shop/itt-dsnvg-anpsq-20/
 
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dax2323

Boerne TX
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I jus ordered the Q14 at shot show....the flexibility and performance were outstanding. I'll use it with the head mount most of the time then weapon mount it if I'm hunting with a friend. Get offers to hunt at a lot of places, but after a night of the land owner watching me and not having a sight it's usually the last hunt there.... This will open up a ton of hunting opportunities for me. Should be here in a couple weeks, gonna get video set up and be posting vids soon.
 
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