Just pulled the trigger on an IR Patrol

[Louis Richards]

M300W. I have sold my Zeus 640 3x 24 75. I simply decided I needed more scanning capability and the field of view on it was hard to beat. Plus the availability to use it as a weapons mount, a clip on, a helmet mount, to handheld, is really hard to beat.

Plus, every single video and picture I have seen the clarity seems unbeatable. Now I know manufactures normally only post their products in the best light possible, but these videos and pictures are coming from the actual end-user.

Ill post back and give my opinions of it versus the 640. But I am excited to get a much larger field of view so I can use it as a true scanner in addition to a scope

I had my MOD 3 goggles, Gen three pinnacle custom-made by him and he did a superb job and his price was unbeatable!

Also happens to be an IR authorized dealer so it worked out well, as he had the cheapest price I could find anywhere

I would post his information here to give him a one up, but I'm unfamiliar with the forum rules concerning that. If anybody wants to chime in and let me know it would be helpful!

 

[TEXASLAWMAN]

The ir patrol is a nice scope you will like it.

 

[Louis Richards]

There does seem to be some confusion. Does anyone know this for fact? The M300W, is the base model of the Patrol "weapons mounted" version. Does that come with its own basic, Picatinny mount built in to the housing?

Some sites show that it does. Some do not. I am told that in order to mount it out of the box, you MUST get the M300W kit, with the Wilcox side flip mount. I thought that was just an upgrade mount over the basic mount that does come with the base model.

The actual person I'm getting it through said he was confused about that also and that he ordered it and it came with nothing at all, no way to mount it. Of course the customer wasn't too pleased. The IR defense website is a little vague about it, but in fact, under what comes wit it, it does NOT show that it comes with anything to mount it.

Even though the picture actually shows it mounted and it's called a "Weapons Mounted" Patrol... Little misleading there if it doesn't come with it.

Yet, many websites, like the night vision guys, shows a picture of it with it and says it comes with a "mini picatinny mount built into the housing"

 

[Drift]

Please keep us inforemed.

 

[Louis Richards]

Will do. I should have the unit in my hands by this time next week. I got the kit with the side flip mount, so I'm not sure I would be able to officially answer it.

I also bought some other ridiculously expensive adapter that goes to my helmet in place of the mount set up I have now for my mod3 goggles ( awesome, just awesome). If anybody is truly interested in the mod-3 goggles, I could do a write up on it and show pictures.

Hard to imagine that I have close to $1000 just in " mounting adapters ". Makes me want to open up a machine shop and start making them

But from what I understand, this new adapter will allow me to take it straight from the weapon and Snapit into my helmet and vice versa.

But then of course, I have to take the entire adapter set up for my mod three and put it somewhere on my body. It's taking up too much space on my gear to carry around all these adapters

I did write Dave, the vice president at IR defense an email asking him about the mount and when he replies I will update here

 

[Louis Richards]

Got my answer from Dave at IR Defense

The m300w no mount, the m300W-kit includes Wilcox mount. Both our distributors USNV and Ultimate NV include their own weapons mounts with m300w base system.

I know the Ultimate night vision mount is made by Alamo 4 star. I think **** is making their own mount as well , but I'm not sure?

Both the USNV mount and the UNV mounts are good quality, the one from UNV/Alamo4 star is a quick detach, and holds zero..

All mounts are rated at.308 recoil

So that does explain the confusion

Update: just spoke to someone who said the mount they got was junk and winded up throwing it away and getting the Wilcox!

 

[JPK]

What mount did they think was junk?

I am waiting for the Alamo 4 Star DLoc mount. I have the Wilcox mount, and it is repeatable to about 3MOA, and that is as good as it get while the Patrol is mounted as well. I expect it will get worse with wear as the Patrol in mounted and unmounted.

By comparison, the 35mm MKII, with it's Larue single lever mount, will shoot as well as the rifle can shoot with a good day scope mounted. (If your thermal target is small enough!)

The Patrol does have a short section of Picatiny rail opposite of the dovetail shoe, and that is where the DLoc mount fits, and where you could mount a small laser to point out targets to NV wearers. Btw, the screen on the Patrol is self righting and will orient itself regardless of whether it is mounted via the shoe or the Picatiny rail.

I have had the opportunity to look through a Zeus 75mm 3x and my IR Patrol MKII 35mm in poor thermal conditions side by side, and I would rate the performance, as rated by the view through the scopes, as about equal.

JPK

 

[Louis Richards]

One of the customers of the guy that I am using, said they got one of the mounts that the other guys include because it doesn't come with one. And that it was a very cheap mount they wind up tossing and getting the Wilcox for the upgrade.

I found it to be a very plausible statement, as the patrol does not come with a mount in the base version and so this is basically a freebie that the bigger companies are throwing on. So I imagine a freebie that's being given away is probably not going to be a top notch mount.

I believe it was ****. But I am always very suspicious, even of Dave's remark about their mounts, that it holds zero. If I have heard that once, I have heard it hundreds of times and I don't think I have ever found any mount that holds zero ( with my limited price range)


"By comparison, the 35mm MKII, with it's Larue single lever mount, will shoot as well as the rifle can shoot with a good day scope mounted. (If your thermal target is small enough!)"

Are you saying that's when you remove it and put it back on? Or that's what it is once you mount it and zero it?

 

[JPK]

Once I zero'd the MK II. I have not removed it and remounted it, it lives on a dedicated upper.

Given the LaRue mount, I suspect repeatability, mounting and dismounting, would be very good, and I have read reports to that effect. IR does offer a two lever LaRue mount, which I would think would be even better, though More difficult to mount in the dark.

Once zero'd the Wilcox is good for about 3" @ 100yds on a rifle that will shoot much better. Removing and remounting the Patrol doesn't make it worse, though I wonder if it will get worse with wear.

JPK

 

[Louis Richards]

Oh, I thought you meant it was good to 3 inches taking it off and putting it back on with it's quick release capability. You mean 3 inches PERIOD!

That's the best it will get? Upside is glad to hear you don't think it will fair much worse taking it on and off

So it doesn't maintain zero, maintains 3" MOA!! LOL

 

[JPK]

It maintains 3" whether you take it off and put it back on or not.

I am waiting for a suppressor, and when I get the stamp I am going to switch it from the 16" 5.56 it is on to a 10.5" 300BLK. I should have the DLOC mount by then and I'll try that and report results.

3" sounds bad, but I'm old enough to remember when 3" was considered poor but acceptable from a factory bolt rifle. And at night 3" has been an adequate minute of everything since ranges are reduced.

JPK

 

[wigwamitus]

In rat control around our buildings, I got 7 rats night before last with 12 rds ... first two were 1 round each. Average distance about 20yds.
I see no variation in terms of taking the q-14 off and putting in back on. I'd say precision and accuracy must be within 2 inches at 20yds. Some of these rats are hand sized, most are 1-2 thumbs. The q-14 on a .22lr is a good rat slayer combination. I would expect the ir-patrol to be at least as good.
I don't need much better accuracy out of the system. The primary variable is me judging the distance and thus holding elevation correctly to hit thumb sized rat. I am zeroed at 30yds. As I move down to 1 yard the hold increases to 3 inches up. As I move out to 50yds, the hold decreases to 1 inch down.

 

[JPK]

If they are thumb sized, are they rats or mice? Our rats are double hand sized.

What is drawing them and where are you finding them?

I know from damage to stored corn we use for deer that we have rats, but I have yet to see any with thermal around our storage shed. I have a 10/22 with a rail that I set up with an EO Tech and a PVS 14. Waiting on a suppressor, but the stamp should be here anytime. Would love to enjoy a good late evening slaying rats.

Any advice appreciated!

JPK

 

[wigwamitus]

I think they are baby rats. They live in the same places the hand sized rats lived. The hand sized ones are easier to see/kill, so I think I'm getting down to the younger ones. That's my theory anyway. Out in the pasture, the pack rats and musk rats are small dog sized. But around the buildings, whatever kind of rats we have a thumb to hand sized. Perhaps some of them are mice, I don't know how to tell.

==
I've done all rat slaying with the .22LR but have two different aiming systems. At first I used was ir-laser with pvs-14 on head. This works ok. But if the rats are in vegetation or wood piles, or otherwise obscured, then I can only get them with the ir-laser if I turn on the ir-illuminator and can see their eyes. There are several times, where I could only see them with the pvs-14 because I could see their eyes.

With the thermal on the rifle, I can scan with the rifle, see the rats and then move towards them to try to close the distance, while trying to estimate the distance also with my unaided eye seeing terrain features to aid in the distance estimating process. When shooting thumb sized critters with .22lr and with thermal, I believe my primary reason for missing is difficulty determining the distance and making the proper (most up) hold).

So in general, I believe the most efficient method is to use the thermal on the rifle and scan with that and shoot with that.

If I am moving a greater distance, I may flip down the pvs-14 so I can navigate and not bump into trees or all into the creek or otherwise then I have to stop now and then flip up the 14 and scan with the thermal, because I can't assume I can see thumb sized critters with the 14. I do often leave the illuminator on in case their eyes are looking at me.

If they can get to the corn, I think they should be all over it.

It is a very relaxing exercise - the nightly rat slaying !

Oh and of course you must have your safe/unsafe lines of fire completely burned in to your brain. You don't want to hit a building or a vehicle etc.

I printed a zoomed in google map and drew the safe/unsafe lines on that map and memorized it and I think about it all the time and I move in ways to optimize my lines of safe lines of fire. So there are areas and directions I do not move in because I would not have a shot from there.

I use eley subsonic hollow points. I buy in 500rd "bricks" which are marked as one batch/lot. I can re-zero with the new block and I am good for the rest of that block.

==

The laser I am using for this purpose is laser max ir-laser about $150 on Amazon. The pressure pad is another $50. So my .22lr has the ir-laser on it and the q-14 and both are zeroed at 30yds. It is a night gun. I have the eotech and cabl laser on my 5.56(14.5) it is my day/night gun. The 5.56 is zeroed at 25 yds and using 62gr xm855 and so I am good out to 400yds about a 3 inch up hold. At 100yds 7 inches down, 200yds 10 inches, 300 8 inches. So if you have the eotech on your 10/22 so u can use it for day gun also, could you use another gun for day gun and optimze the 10/22 for night rat slaying?

We hear the ir-patrol can be used in front of a day scope. I'm not sure how that works. The back end of the ir-patrol is pvs-14 equivalent, which means diopter, no collimation. So how is an ir-patrol to be collimated in front of a day scope? I've seen a pvs-14 collimation device on BH Photo, but that is for PVS-14 not ir-patrol. Is there a collimation mount for the ir-patrol?

 

[wigwamitus]

Oh what is drawing them.

Recently we got a bunch of gineas and we've been feeding them around the woodshed, so that was one draw. otherwise, we just have too many piles of wood and dirt around our buildings, left over from construction. Stuff we use and will use, but good homes for the rats.

 

[JPK]

We had to "rat proof" the room within the shed where we store the corn. Nothing is permanently rat proof though, I swear that given the time and motivation they would find a way through concrete. So, we have to re-rat proof every so often.

After scraping the dirt under the shed, laying down wire fencing and then about 4" of gravel, the tunneling under the floor has about ended. But we have maybe ten truck loads of gravel adjacent to the shed that need to get spread on the roads. The guy who does that for us has been AWOL for awhile, and I see rat borrows in the gravel piles.

Hmm, I wonder if the rats sense my presence because of my walking on or driving on the gravel around the shed and stay hidden?

Maybe I need to set up a corn pile a little away from the shed, where I can sneak up quietly? We have a couple of stacks of salvaged lumber we use for waterfowl blinds and deer stands. Near one of those perhaps.

I would prefer to keep my thermal scopes on my centerfires, but when I get the DLoc mount I will try to see if by 1:1000 chances whether the Wilcox QD mount provides an adequate zero on the 10/22 when the Patrol is zero'd on a centerfire using the DLoc mount, or vice versa. It'll be awhile before I've done enough damage to the population to need to shoot small target youngsters. Sounds like you've been working them over well!

My plan was to use the PVS 14 weapon mounted, with an IR illuminator rail mounted to provide extra light and eye shine, and the EO Tech for an aiming point.

The rail on the 10/22 is long enough to mount a scope and use the Patrol as a clip on, but because of the Patrol's construction, I understand the "collimation" is achieved by co-witnessing reticles, though I am not 100% sure on that and have not tried it. The rail is also long enough to mount a scope forward and a PVS 14 behind. This 10/22 is my dedicated night 22, and while I don't mind seconding a PVS 14 to it for occasional duty, or trying to see if I get lucky using mounts on opposite sides of the Patrol, I don't want to put a high dollar thermal or NV scope on it full time. I live in the city, so when a night predator hunting opportunity comes along, my rifles need to ready to roll, no opportunity for a re-zero.

The shed at my hunting club is in the middle of nowhere, so, other than the shed and equipment, our tractor, Kubota and whatnot, there is nothing to impede shooting in any direction. And I'll have both NV and thermal to ensure I don't bag the Kubota!

I have most of a brick of subsonic Remington I bought long ago, when my kids were young, to try to knock off some noise and blast from 22 revolvers. I am planning to give that a try. Thanks for mentioning the hold over for those close shots, I am 100% sure I would have overlooked that issue.

Have you ever watched one of the English night time rat shooting utube videos? Some are a real hoot. Hope to figure out how to have a couple night a year like they do.

I'll let you know how it works out.

JPK

 

[FrankT]

The cheapest thing for shooting rats and such at night on a 22 or pellet gun is the 3-12 Xsight for $440 or so...just dedicate it to your gun of choice and always be ready day or night.

 

[JPK]

I have a Photon XT 4.6, which would do the job, but the scope has fallen into disfavor. It might make a decent night option, but a PVS 14 is so much easier to use....

No magnification would required for the uses I would put the dedicated night shooting 22 to either.

 

[wigwamitus]

I understand the "collimation" is achieved by co-witnessing reticles

That was my guess and I did that with my vo 1-6x and the qr-14 on the .22lr and it seems to work. But I have to leave both reticles turned on because the "co-witnessing" part is my head moving around to achieve the position where the two reticles line up for each shot.

==
You can get some of them with NV + illuminator but not the ones hiding in the vegetation, or the wood piles ... except for the times where they stay still long enough while looking at you that you see their eyes and can shoot them.

Thermal on the .22 is the most efficient way I've found to shot them. Oh and we have about 2 dozen bait boxes all around the buildings and inside some of the buildings and I'm sure that helps, but I've gotten about 45 rats out there in the past month, so the bait boxes are leaving me some! With the thermal I can track them easily while they run around the wood or dirt piles, when they run inside the wood piles (to an extent) when they run up and down trees ... etc. I'm sure pellet gun would be more efficient in terms of ammo cost, but I don't have a pellet gun and good ones with rails cost as much as a "real" gun.

Shotgun would also work but I don't have a modern shotgun - so mine would make a lot of noise and that would not be popular with the people in the buildings. They can't hear me out there popping away with the 22.

==
I heard a rumor that there was a collimation "device" for the ir-patrol but I've never been able to see it. I did find such a device for the PVS-14.

Torrey Pines Logic Zero Lens Riflescope to PVS-14 TP-H-ZL-PVS14

Now if they just had one of those for the ir-patrol or in my case a MUM (q-14 is form factor of MUM).

 

[wigwamitus]

No magnification would required for the uses I would put the dedicated night shooting 22 to either.

Right, I'm not using any magnification. There is the 2x digital and it might be useful but I haven't even thought to try it!