Guide to "LEAD" Shooting moving targets.

Discussion in 'Hog Hunting Tactics & Tips' started by TEXASLAWMAN, Nov 20, 2014.

  1. TEXASLAWMAN

    TEXASLAWMAN Lone Star Boars Owner LSB TURKEY BUZZARD PRESERVATION SOCIETY SUS VENATOR CLUB LoneStarBoars Supporter

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    I made a short video trying to explain the types of lead I hope this helps someone out there.

     
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  2. FrankT

    FrankT Destin FL LSB TURKEY BUZZARD PRESERVATION SOCIETY LoneStarBoars Supporter

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    That was helpful...Thanks! Reminds me of dove hunting sorta except on the ground.
     
    Last edited: Nov 20, 2014
  3. Chopperdrvr

    Chopperdrvr Deep East Tx SUS VENATOR CLUB

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    Thanks TLM, now to just get to practice these methods on real targets.
     
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  4. TEXASLAWMAN

    TEXASLAWMAN Lone Star Boars Owner LSB TURKEY BUZZARD PRESERVATION SOCIETY SUS VENATOR CLUB LoneStarBoars Supporter

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    Let me know if it is really helpful or not I can try to redo it or change something. Its been non stop for me the last few weeks and my brain is a little tired lol.
     
  5. Ratdog68

    Ratdog68 LSB Official Story Teller LoneStarBoars Supporter

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    Nicely done, well described and displayed.
     
  6. theblakester

    theblakester Got a black belt in keeping it real. LSB TURKEY BUZZARD PRESERVATION SOCIETY SUS VENATOR CLUB LoneStarBoars Supporter

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  7. Afalex1

    Afalex1 The Kit Kat Kid! SUS VENATOR CLUB

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    Good examples Lawman. I primarily use sustained lead because that is what I was taught on the skeet range and works for me. Every now and then I will switch to swing through, but that normally happens if the hogs get ahead of my swing or I have multiple hogs running the same path. I can't recall a time I have ever used the trapping method and I think it can induce trigger jerk or flinching for some people. I have found for fast targets coming straight to me I have to hold slightly lower then center mass of the target. No matter what lead one uses the biggest thing is to KEEP THE GUN MOVING even after the shot. Lots of people will squeeze the trigger and stop swinging the gun. This immediately puts the shot behind the target.<br/>
     
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  8. hdfireman

    hdfireman Blackstone Arms SUS VENATOR CLUB LoneStarBoars Supporter Vendor

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    Great video TLM. I am a user of sustained and trapping method.
     
  9. Brian Shaffer

    Brian Shaffer Pro Staff Third Coast Thermal SUS VENATOR CLUB LoneStarBoars Supporter

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    "The greater the distance and the greater the speed the greater the lead needs to be."

    Absolutely perfect statement. The trick is learning what that lead needs to be and how much you need to alter it for different distances and speeds.
     
  10. wigwamitus

    wigwamitus LSB Active Member

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    Beautiful!!!

    So, do you think about the speed of the creature in terms of mph or just "fast" or "slow" ?

    In reading, it seems coyotes might be able to hit about 40 mph at top speed and hogs about 30 mph at top speed ... but typical speeds might be much less, maybe 20-25 mph when moving "fast".

    Could you comment on this aspect please?

    Really appreciate the effort to educate!!!
     
  11. TEXASLAWMAN

    TEXASLAWMAN Lone Star Boars Owner LSB TURKEY BUZZARD PRESERVATION SOCIETY SUS VENATOR CLUB LoneStarBoars Supporter

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    You can also correct off your misses if you catch the bullet impact with your eye.
     
  12. TEXASLAWMAN

    TEXASLAWMAN Lone Star Boars Owner LSB TURKEY BUZZARD PRESERVATION SOCIETY SUS VENATOR CLUB LoneStarBoars Supporter

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    Hogs are actually pretty fast. There are so many factors target speed / distance to target / target size are the most important. When shooting moving targets the speed I'm having to swing the rifle to keep up gives me a good guess to how fast they are going.
     
  13. wigwamitus

    wigwamitus LSB Active Member

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    How do you determine the distance?

    In your videos you seem to know the distances. Do you range with LRF before the video starts? Do you use reticle ranging? Or otherwise?
     
  14. Navygator

    Navygator LSB Active Member

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    Excellent video and makes perfect sense. My issue is that I don't get enough practice but I am working on curing that.
     
  15. TEXASLAWMAN

    TEXASLAWMAN Lone Star Boars Owner LSB TURKEY BUZZARD PRESERVATION SOCIETY SUS VENATOR CLUB LoneStarBoars Supporter

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    That is something you must learn to judge. If you hunt the same properties it's easy you just learn the distances from fixed landmarks like a fence, tree, barn, ect. Other than that it is just something you learn to judge with time. That is another reason I use the 50 yard zero and 6.8 pretty much will hit a grown hog from zero to 200 yards without holdover.
     
  16. Brian Shaffer

    Brian Shaffer Pro Staff Third Coast Thermal SUS VENATOR CLUB LoneStarBoars Supporter

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    I think we all know the distances or can figure them out after the video is over. By and large, humans are not good at making distance estimates, though some people certainly develop a knack for it. The problem of estimating distances through NV or thermal scopes is usually harder still and that problem is compounded when looking through magnification. The problem of magnification is further compounded by use of variable magnification and the fact that scope manufacturers' claims of magnification are often off quite a bit. Without a LRF (which can be problematic to use at night as few have a LRF NV), distance estimation for leads is really an experience issue or something you correct on the fly. Sometimes hunters have the benefit of already being familiar with an area and having a pretty good working idea of what the distances are between landmarks. That can be really helpful.

    I got asked about lead after I posted this video on the 6.5 Grendel forum and this is my reply. (Video and Google Earth view posted here... http://lonestarboars.com/threads/unexpected-thermal-hog-hunt-after-coyote-hunt.1757/)

    As the hunt was on my land, I knew the approximate distance of the first shot. I had no idea how much distance was closed when the pig appeared and was running L-R. That part I made up. I think I thought the hog was a lot closer than it was as I was using a new scope that had a 3x magnification on it that I wasn't used to using. So I failed to lead the hog sufficiently with the 2nd shot.

    TLM's video is a good one. It tells you a lot of what you need to know. What it doesn't tell you is what is needed from either experience or knowledge before you shoot. Proper speed and range estimation are fairly complex calculations (imagine WWII submariner trying to torpedo a Japanese destroyer), but hunters don't do these most of the time because they don't actually have time sort of like a QB making a pass to an unintended receiver somewhere down field after a play has gone wrong. It is a quick assessment because that is what there is time for.

    You can simplify things more as a buddy of mine does, but the more simple you go, the less precise your hits are apt to be. My buddy's rule of thumb "generally" works. He doesn't get to shoot many hogs, but if they are on the move perpendicular to him quickly, the first shot goes on the tip of the nose at 40-100 yards and 6" in front if beyond 100 yards (I don't think he shoots beyond 200 very often). Hogs walking get the shot aimed at the head. Most of the time, either setup gives him a vitals hit or at least slows down the hog for another try. Quartering shots are just aimed at the head. Hogs inside 40 yards you don't lead regardless of travel direction and speed. Those are his basic rules.
     
  17. wigwamitus

    wigwamitus LSB Active Member

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    Distance at night ... Kindergarden style ...

    01 - I've been using first technique for several months, it is good out to 300yds quickly and with more time allowed I can extend farther.
    This involves use of Bushy 1600 ARC Elite LRF I got for about $400 to the door. I can do it one handed with the other hand holding the rifle.
    I flip out right side PVS-14 on head, if present, then pull Bushy out of pouch and un cap (cap is tethered to LRF) then hold up to my unaided eye. Looking through the left side 14 I press the range button and find the ir-laser dot from the LRF. Then I manuever the dot onto the item I want to range. I then release and repeat with three pulses on the target. Given time I repeat two more times. Three pulses, three repetitions. This usually gets three answers which are within 1-2 yds of each other and I usually call it good at that point and pick my answer. I then recap the LRF and re-pouch if I will not range something else. This Bushy is not an NV LRF, but it might work better at night than it does in the day. At night I can SEE the ir-laser, so I can make sure it is on the item I am ranging ... and one of the general complaints about this model is that the display is too dim, which is actually a plus at night, since it is not too bright :).
    02 - If distance more the 300 I might not be able to see the target with the PVS-14, so range something near by I can see and then estimate the gap.
    By using the 3x 14 magnifier as a slip on ... given more time I can push the distance out farther. I've done this out to 500yds, but haven't tried to go farther yet. I will try out to 700, next chance I get.
    03 - Recently I've also started ranging with the reticle. One of my early attempts I estimated the height of a tree in a tree line to be 27 feet (9 yards) with a 18 mil reading on the FFP reticle. This gave me a 500yds result for the distance estimate. I ranged with the LRF and got 509. I guess I got lucky that time. I tried a similar approach the a tree farther away and got 1600yd estimate with LRF returning 1282 a bit off that time. The difficulty is that around here, there isn't much to use for height except trees and guessing how tall they are is a crap shoot. At night it is more difficult, so far anyway. If there was something man made around, it would be easier.
     
  18. Afalex1

    Afalex1 The Kit Kat Kid! SUS VENATOR CLUB

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    I do something similar to you Wigwamitus. I have a Nikon lrf I use the same way.
     
  19. Constructor

    Constructor Guest

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    Thanks for the guidance on the thermal device!
     
  20. znztivguy

    znztivguy LSB Member

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    Are you using a magnified thermal? Great video and good pointers.... I will probably have to adjust depending on my optic, rifle caliber, and bad eyes...but besides that good to go.
     

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