Clip on night vision/thermal how it works in front of a dayscope.

rgilbert

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This answered several of my questions, i may try renting one just to get a taste!
You are gonna make me bring one Deleon aren't you.
 

Lancer

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You are gonna make me bring one Deleon aren't you.
That's probably the only way i'll get to shoot with one!!!! I'm actually going to try to convince the dairy owner it would save him money, surely with 42 pigs eating ground corn every night it would pay off eventually! Wish me luck!!!!
 

JPK

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rgilbert and TLM,

Thanks again for the replies.

I think I understand the answer to the question I was asking. More clearly put, I was wondering if, when used as a stand alone, you see a small screen in a wide field of view or if the screen fills much or all of the view.

From your videos, TLM, the screen on the Apollo appears small when viewed at 1x, which is why I asked the question since I can see using whichever unit I buy as a stand alone at times.

rgilbert informs that it is pretty much the same with the MKII, but he also informs us that unless he crowds the scope he is seeing all screen and not a relatively small screen in a field of black.

Thanks also rgilbert on your assessment of the MKII's. I tend to favor field of view over magnification in my selection of scopes for day hunting, and I don't think it will be different for night hunting. I'll want to use the unit for scanning sometimes too, and I think FOV would be important for that use. I use 8x32 binos most of the time for day use, and part of my preference for those is FOV. Moreover, with the ability to use a 20mm 1.45x MKII as a clip on in front of a, say, 1.1x4 day scope I am not limited to 1.45x or 2x and 4x digital zoom options only. With the screen filling the view at about 2.5x as you report, total magnification would be about 3.6x, which is a very versatile level of magnification. (And is right within TLM's "sweet spot" of 3x-4x with the Apollo, and 3x-4x sure seems to work for him!)

JPK
 

Curly Shuffle

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Learn something new everyday. The way I read it was the article was referring to optics behind the NV. I will try and find it and reread. NV is pretty straight forward other than the different kinds you can get just like anything else there are different models out there, but I suppose it can be confusing to some like anything else (scopes in general) Heck I am still learning that whole ordeal with mil-rad, mil-dot, moa, and on and on!! BANG BANG!!
 

Curly Shuffle

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That's probably the only way i'll get to shoot with one!!!! I'm actually going to try to convince the dairy owner it would save him money, surely with 42 pigs eating ground corn every night it would pay off eventually! Wish me luck!!!!
You need help with those 42 hogs???:) BANG BANG BANG!!!!
 

hdfireman

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Do it Lancer!!!! ;)

TLM is correct, a clip-on will not be affected by an illuminated reticle. Putting a PVS-14 behind an EOTech or any other illuminated sight is what can cause damage to a NV tube.
 

TEXASLAWMAN

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Learn something new everyday. The way I read it was the article was referring to optics behind the NV. I will try and find it and reread. NV is pretty straight forward other than the different kinds you can get just like anything else there are different models out there, but I suppose it can be confusing to some like anything else (scopes in general) Heck I am still learning that whole ordeal with mil-rad, mil-dot, moa, and on and on!! BANG BANG!!
Yes PVS-14 goes behind clip ons go in front totally different specs.
 

TEXASLAWMAN

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rgilbert and TLM,

Thanks again for the replies.

I think I understand the answer to the question I was asking. More clearly put, I was wondering if, when used as a stand alone, you see a small screen in a wide field of view or if the screen fills much or all of the view.

From your videos, TLM, the screen on the Apollo appears small when viewed at 1x, which is why I asked the question since I can see using whichever unit I buy as a stand alone at times.

rgilbert informs that it is pretty much the same with the MKII, but he also informs us that unless he crowds the scope he is seeing all screen and not a relatively small screen in a field of black.

Thanks also rgilbert on your assessment of the MKII's. I tend to favor field of view over magnification in my selection of scopes for day hunting, and I don't think it will be different for night hunting. I'll want to use the unit for scanning sometimes too, and I think FOV would be important for that use. I use 8x32 binos most of the time for day use, and part of my preference for those is FOV. Moreover, with the ability to use a 20mm 1.45x MKII as a clip on in front of a, say, 1.1x4 day scope I am not limited to 1.45x or 2x and 4x digital zoom options only. With the screen filling the view at about 2.5x as you report, total magnification would be about 3.6x, which is a very versatile level of magnification. (And is right within TLM's "sweet spot" of 3x-4x with the Apollo, and 3x-4x sure seems to work for him!)

JPK
The screen seems pretty small on the apollo to me it will work just not ideal in my opinion. The MKII has the normal screen for dedicated scope mode then the smaller screen for the clip on mode. I find 3x is the magic spot for hunting in general but again that is just my preference.
 

JPK

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Thanks, I wasn't aware that screen size changes in the MKII when you change modes from reticle/day scope to no reticle/clip on.
 

JPK

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Yes PVS-14 goes behind clip ons go in front totally different specs.

Curly, if you look up at the very top of the page you will see an IDENT Marking Services banner, and in it is a PVS 14 mounted behind a NV compatible EO Tech.

JPK
 

wigwamitus

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Here is my pic from last night of similar setup.

epohR9fh.jpg


This is 14 with 720nm filter removed and 3x magnifier screwed on front on 14 and mounted behind eotech. No fuzzy with this setup. I used this setup a bit when I first got this gear, but haven't used it is a while. Thermal now heading to Florida, so while waiting for replacement deciding to try some different configs, like this one. It does help with co-witnessing the ir-laser, I can say that much!

It would be great if we could find 720nm filters that allowed the 3x magnifier to be screwed on to the threads of the filter, but no such luck yet. So have to be careful to turn on NV mode on the EOTECH, before turning on the 14 behind it. If not using the filter, the 720nm filter would be on front of 14 (normally I have the filters on the front of the 14s) and would protect from the reticle.
 

JPK

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wigwamitus,

I know it's possible since I have read where guys were able to use filters behind a 3x lens.

The guy who would know which filter would work is Delta4-3.

JPK
 

rgilbert

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Thanks, I wasn't aware that screen size changes in the MKII when you change modes from reticle/day scope to no reticle/clip on.
Yes, when you change the scope to clip on mode the screen size gets smaller due to you not needing the larger screen with a day scope mounted behind. I have found I prefer to use it as a stand alone. I just put it on after you posed your question about clip on's. It works and I would have no problem using it as such. It does have a bracket reticle that you can co witness to you day scope and then turn on the reticle in the scope for recording your hunt. Without doing this you can still record everyone else just won't see what your aiming point is.

hope this helps.
 

JPK

LSB Active Member
Thanks again. It sure does help.

Since NV and thermal are new to me and my son I am looking for versatility. I can't say, "Hmm, need to up grade my scanning tool," or "A stand alone would be easier than a clip on" or vice versa.

I figure we buy one piece of gear at a time and use it and evaluate it vs. our needs and then get the next. So, for example, if the 19mm MKII works well as a scanner, then maybe for a dedicated scanner we get the forthcoming Patrol, and we have the comfort of knowing that the MKII works great as at least a stand alone or clip on....

JPK
 

Ncorry

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wigwamitus,

I know it's possible since I have read where guys were able to use filters behind a 3x lens.

The guy who would know which filter would work is Delta4-3.

JPK

I have a 30 mm Opteka 720 filter and I can screw the 3x USGI into it jsut fine. I also have a Hong King 720 filter that does it too, but had to buy 3 or 4 of them to find one that worked. AB Night Vision has one that works that is $50 bucks or so. Another option might be doing it this way-- http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_6_18/442341_5_dollar_sacrificial_window_for_your_PVS_7_14.html
 

FrankT

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yeah mistakes are costly so you are wise to be asking then compare for yourself before buying.
 

rgilbert

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Thanks again. It sure does help.

Since NV and thermal are new to me and my son I am looking for versatility. I can't say, "Hmm, need to up grade my scanning tool," or "A stand alone would be easier than a clip on" or vice versa.

I figure we buy one piece of gear at a time and use it and evaluate it vs. our needs and then get the next. So, for example, if the 19mm MKII works well as a scanner, then maybe for a dedicated scanner we get the forthcoming Patrol, and we have the comfort of knowing that the MKII works great as at least a stand alone or clip on....

JPK
The 19 will work great far a scanner or a dedicated scope. The Patrol cost more money, but I have not played with one yet. What I have found is the thermal makes it hard to see after you have it up to your eye for a while. My NV does not do this. I will say it has a place in the night hunting we do. I would not have recovered the big hog I shot last weekend without thermal.
 

JPK

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Your comment about finding the hog brings up what I hope will be a substantial and very helpful feature of the thermal we get.

We have sika deer at one of my hunting clubs here in MD. They related to elk and the MD sika are the smallest strain, a whopper stag may go 120lbs dressed. They are very nocturnal and they live in salt marsh. Typical shots are at the very end of legal deer hunting time, which is 1/2hr after sunset. They are tough deer, tougher than whitetails, and they tend not to bleed as profusely given the same shot placement, rifle, bullet, etc. Recovery can suck since blood tracking in the marsh can be very difficult and good size portions of the marshes have water at all tides. Combined with the risk of sinking to your doo dads with the next step, it can be hard and troublesome to find even a well shot sika unless it is spined.

I am hoping we can use the thermal to good effect in our sika recovery efforts.

I'm also hoping the thermal will be helpful for scouting after dark. With the marsh so hard to traverse, we can only guestimate travel lanes. Looking at the marsh you would think it's all at sea level, but there is a lot of feature, albeit all of it within a foot or so of sea level. Sika know every high spot in the marsh though.

JPK
 

TEXASLAWMAN

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It works for finding downed game but depending on the height thickness of the grass they can still dissapeared until you are on top of them. An elevated position helps a lot.
 

wigwamitus

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... What I have found is the thermal makes it hard to see after you have it up to your eye for a while

I have noticed this phenomena also and have done some experimenting.

My theoretical plan is to scan with white hot and shoot with black hot. It doesn't always work out that way, but that is the plan. But after walking around for 2 hrs with the 14 on the left eye and holding the apollo on WH up to my right eye (as a handheld monocular) I get headaches. So, I started using the RED ("custom OEM") pallet. It is one away from the white hot pallet so if I actually see something I can switch to the WH pallet quickly.

The RED pallet seems to be able to detect things just as easily as the WH, though I think the WH is better for identification. Switching back and forth between BH and WH helps also for ID, depending on the conditions (see Aaron's NV tips!).
RED pallet dramatically reduces headaches. I can now look through the Apollo for say 70% of 2 hours without headaches.
RED pallet reduces light coming out of the back of the Apollo and bouncing off me, thus increasing visible stealth.
RED pallet seems to increase battery life.

If my apollo had a brightness control, like I hear the new ones do, then running WH/BH on reduced brightess might accomplish all this also. So perhaps my RH pallet is just a poor man's brightness control!
 
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